rally crash, south of france.

[expaddockrunner]

A rally car in the Var region of southern France has ploughed through a crowd of spectators, killing two people and injuring 17.

The car left the road at Plan-de-la-Tour, near Toulon on France's Mediterranean coast, after the driver apparently made an error.

One of the dead is said to be a rally marshal and several children are believed to be among those hurt.

[maxi.man]

i saw this on telly in france last weekend when we where doing a ourist rally quite bad

[chunder]

Seems to be a really bad spate of accidents at the moment, qite a few drivers being hurtor killed nad also a few fan contact moments.

Maybe it is just get reported more, either way if you ahve been to a rally anywhere you will know the marhals are from a ranghe of OTT Hitlers to so lax they might aswell not be there.

Very difficult

[leonidas]

Its tragic for the individuals concerned but also worrying for the sport. At a time when the MSA is campaigning for 'closed road' events in England, a few incidents like this could put paid to events on public roads - even if MSA standards are much higher and more rigorously enforced than elsewhere.

[MagnetON]

Originally Posted by leonidas

Its tragic for the individuals concerned but also worrying for the sport. At a time when the MSA is campaigning for 'closed road' events in England, a few incidents like this could put paid to events on public roads - even if MSA standards are much higher and more rigorously enforced than elsewhere.

Especially with an almost identical incident in Ireland over the weekend.

[bella]

they do a lot of rallies in the var and the alpes maritimes area, so they're very well versed in common sense and safe practice. it would be a shame if a power that be that simply didn't understand the sport and organisational challenges put a stop to rallying on public roads.

[GORDON STREETER]

It is a shame bella, but I have seen first hand rallies in places like Cyprus and Spain where crowd control is non existent.
Some of the "red bloodied" males try to show how "hard" they are by standing on the outside of the fastest most dangerous corners and try to touch the cars as they come by and are cheered on by their mates.
When something happens (and it does frequently) they try and blame the driver !!!!

[leonidas]

A quick look on youtube shows other parts of this rally. You can clearly see photographers and others standing in escape roads and in what should be prohibited areas. At the accident site itself there are people on the outside to the bend - including the people taking the amateur footage.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AIprH...eature=related

The drivers appears to approach the junction and be unclear which way to go. He isn't going particularly fast. That raises questions about the marking of the junction and if it was properly signed/taped.

The worrying thing is that the driver was 'taken into custody'. Maybe this is a French legal requirement but it seems to place an assumption of guilt on the driver. Looking at this video evidence I think the organisers have a case to answer...

[bella]

if he's unclear about which way to go... i'm no genius and i'm not trying to start anything but isn't that why he has notes and a co-driver?

[BertMk2]

Hmmm, it does look like the car just went down the escape road - which to all intents and purposes it's perfectly entitled to do. Looks to me to be a clear case of people standing in the wrong place rather than anything else (as most of these incidents are).

[WJM]

Originally Posted by leonidas

The drivers appears to approach the junction and be unclear which way to go. He isn't going particularly fast. That raises questions about the marking of the junction and if it was properly signed/taped.

The worrying thing is that the driver was 'taken into custody'. Maybe this is a French legal requirement but it seems to place an assumption of guilt on the driver. Looking at this video evidence I think the organisers have a case to answer...

The car had a brake failure, it is possible that the driver knew this earlier. That is why they have taken him in custody.
He was approaching the junction at 150+ kph so he was going particulary fast indeed. He was the 56th (or so) car on the track, so you can assume the junction was properly signed and taped. He also had reconnaissance and was a local driver. Why he appears to steer left we can only speculate.
In French rallies there are always officials of course, but also Gendarmes. Eyewitnesses said the Gendarme directed the public to stand in that particular spot. But still, even if a police officer tells me to stand in a brake zone I wouldn't do it.

[BertMk2]

It's unlikely the car had a total brake failure - the front and rear brake systems should be on completely separate fluid reservoirs and piping so if you do lose brakes for whatever reason you'll only lose either the fronts or the rears. To lose all your brakes at the same time would be extremely unlikely I'd have thought? Even with that in mind the precise reason you don't stand in the escape roads is that a car could end up there - that's the whole point of the escape road - to allow a crew to "get away" with cocking the corner up or to give them a safe alternative if they think they're not going to make the corner for any reason (mechanical issue or otherwise).

[leonidas]

Originally Posted by WJM

The car had a brake failure, it is possible that the driver knew this earlier. That is why they have taken him in custody.

I'm with BertMk2 - I would be surprised if he had a total brake failure. Sure, he may have had brake problems but if it is serious you look to use the escape road to escape - that's what they are there for. At least that is what I was always taught!

Of course if he had totally lost braking at high speed he could not have made the corner anyway. If he had tried he would have probably understeered directly into the crowd just beyond the junction ... seriously risking the life of himself, his coodriver as well as spectators.

I wonder how much knowledge the local Gendarmes actually have of rally management. My French isn't good but from what I can see Gendarmes may have allowed spectators into a prohibited area. In which case arresting the driver may have been a police tactic to distract media attention from their own mistake. Very worrying...

[WJM]

I never said he had total brake failure, I said a brake failure, namely that at the right front, possibly the left front too.

As far as the so-called escape road, well there was none. The situation was a very long straight were the cars go right on the limiter, which ended in a T-section. The car went basically straight on and slammed into a stonewall about 1m high. You can still see one of the stones on the bonnet of the car. The spectators were on the wall or maybe right in front of it.