ERC Dreux/France

[Hickey1]

Originally Posted by Barrie

Yeah Mr Tony Sutton likes to wind up the French by cheering everyone else on when there ahead of one of there countryman, always good sport.

Perhaps Stig has got the hump still after what a certain driver got away with in the first round.

Yep, it was all in good spirits and just great to see Kev come out in front of Hvaal right before the flag. With the noise from us and Kev and Andy's team behind us, you'd have thought we were in the UK.

I didn't see what the fuss was about over that certain overtake at Lydden. Seemed to me that Liam got on the inside coming down the hill and there was rubbing from both parties. But seriously, it looked like Stig just wanted to cause damage, and he did, to his own car.

[tbtstt]

Originally Posted by Hickey1

I didn't see what the fuss was about over that certain overtake at Lydden. Seemed to me that Liam got on the inside coming down the hill and there was rubbing from both parties.

I think the argument would be that he aggressively moved across on Stig to the point of making contact, then he continued to push at that point. He wasn't just holding his racing line.

I daresay Liams move on Stig is defendable as a "racing incident" though, its the post-race lunge at Lindefjell that was well out of line (in my opinion anyway).

[Hickey1]

Originally Posted by tbtstt

I daresay Liams move on Stig is defendable as a "racing incident" though, its the post-race lunge at Lindefjell that was well out of line (in my opinion anyway).

Without doubt, and the lack of punishment boggles the mind.

Saying that, the French drivers this weekend seemed to get away with a lot of 'racing incidents', however, any contact on a French driver resulted in a black and white flag and even a black flag on occasions.

[acer]

Quote:
Originally Posted by tbtstt
I daresay Liams move on Stig is defendable as a "racing incident" though, its the post-race lunge at Lindefjell that was well out of line (in my opinion anyway).
Without doubt, and the lack of punishment boggles the mind.

Was the post-race lunge at Lindefjell intentional or accidental? Does anyone actually know how/why that incident occurred? Was he or was he not punished? Does anyone actually know the answers to these questions. I suspect not.

[tbtstt]

Originally Posted by acer

Was the post-race lunge at Lindefjell intentional or accidental? Does anyone actually know how/why that incident occurred? Was he or was he not punished? Does anyone actually know the answers to these questions. I suspect not.

I agree there is a lot of hearsay with regards to the incident. "Liam ran back to the pits...", "Lindefjell was seen outside the Monster garage...", lots of things were "seen" but its hard to ascertain what is a fact and what is not...

...the one concrete fact we do have though is the contact was clearly captured on video:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LbOSaFkSAgQ

Liam crosses the line, the car straigtens up and begins to decellerate, then swerves as soon as he draws level with Lindefjell. I said it at the time and I'll say it again now: its certainly possible something happened in or with the car to cause that but, to me, I find it difficult to see how that can be seen as anything but an intentional punt.

As was said during the previous thread on the incident on this forum, Liam has posted on here in the past and both the video and the various conversations on the matter were (and still are) getting a lot of negative comments: surely if there was a genuine explanation he would have spoken up or addressed some of the criticism?

I believe in innocence until proven guilty, but the lack of defence - or even acknowledgment - of the incident implies guilt to me. (Just my opinion though, feel free to disagree! )

[Hickey]

I think the issue of contact in the ERC has been, and will continue to be, ever-present. The officials should probably pass a ruling on it, or apply decisions more consistently.

I think Liam's move versus Stig was defensible as "racing" and as a spectator I think that I'd rather see people go for gaps and be committed than whimp out. The previous heroes of the sport certainly weren't the type to back out.

But then you have decisions like at Dreux, where Faren was excluded (not even a black and white flag) for little more than rubbing, but a French driver came off worse, so Faren got punished. However, Sagnier, the FRC's golden girl, span Godfrey going into the joker and escaped unpunished.

Laboulle took Janin out, intentionally or not, and goes unpunished. And I have to say that Kevin Procter, as fantastic as the win was, was probably a little fortunate that his "tap and pass" on Laboulle into the second corner went unnoticed. Not one person has mentioned it on here, but if it was Liam who did it, people would have said something.

The problem with tight tracks like Dreux is that, as Mandie August proved in one of the heats, if you just sit on the racing line and nurse the car home, no one will overtake you unless they deploy the Matt Neal tap and pass. I am not saying that I don't want to see people going for gaps, just that the officials need to apply the rules consistently.

On a similar note, Dreux is a track that badly suffers from not having a joker lap on the first corner. 8 cars into that more often than not spelt carnage. Great for the fans, but not ideal for those who are trying to win championships.

[chunder]

Its fairly obvious to anyone watching the vidoe that Marc was under pressure from Hvaal, they were both turning in opposite directions with the forces of weight on the car, as soon as the cars were freed from each otehr Laboulle was way too quick and sadly took out Janin.

Race should have been restarted really.

As for Doran, the Guttorm move was retirbution for the Norge taking his line inot the first turn in front of DOran and Liam hitting the inside marker, half spinning him, that is how I see it.

None of these drivers has a reputation for contact other than Doran, especially Laboulle. Stecka is forceful but not a rammer, neither is Guttorm really, though again forceful, but often very unlucky.

For me Laboulle made a mistake, was not ramming, it was a consequence of contact with Hvall, and Procter punted someone in the chicane which helped him get into the lead aswell, but this seesm to be the norm to pass people these days!

I guess some of it is fair, some not, either way its contact and is either allowed or driven out.

Been this way for decades so likely to stay.

[AndyS]

Originally Posted by acer

Quote:
its the post-race lunge at Lindefjell that was well out of line (in my opinion anyway).
Without doubt, and the lack of punishment boggles the mind.

Was the post-race lunge at Lindefjell intentional or accidental? Does anyone actually know how/why that incident occurred? Was he or was he not punished? Does anyone actually know the answers to these questions. I suspect not.

tbtstt was far more diplomatic in his response, but I'm sorry if that wasn't deliberate then I'm daffy duck . Yes we don't know the answers but if he'd been punished I'm sure we'd have heard.

[tbtstt]

Originally Posted by Hickey

I think the issue of contact in the ERC has been, and will continue to be, ever-present. The officials should probably pass a ruling on it, or apply decisions more consistently.

Yeah, I definately agree with this, especially the last line. Given the nature of the racing and the layout of some of the circuits I think contact is inevitable especially, as has been said, when trying to overtake.

Perhaps its easier for me to say as a spectator (actually I'm sure it is) but, to me, there is a difference between applying some pressure to get past the car in front and just battering your way through.

Procters overtake on Laboulle is a good example in my opinion (3:20 in this video: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=edDpVbWfmhg). Procter clearly makes contact with Laboulle as they turn in, but he doesn't plough into him (i.e. he is braking on the approach to the corner) and when alongside Laboulle, although they both hold their line, neither of them are aggressively turning in on each other (which I think is the argument with the Dorans/Walfridsson contact at Lydden).

Originally Posted by AndyS

tbtstt was far more diplomatic in his response, but I'm sorry if that wasn't deliberate then I'm daffy duck .

As I say I'm conscience of jumping to conclusions without facts and, equally, being overly judgmental based purely on my opinion as a spectator rather than as a driver, but the silence from Doran on that incident was deafening to me.

[chasing cars]

Well done to Kevin, proves that nice guys dont finish last! Conditions were as wet as I can remember for rallycross and the conditions around the circuit were pretty awful, oh and the tent leaked, but I thought the meeting ran pretty well considering the weather.

The circuit was better than I was expecting, different to anything we have had in the UK and shows you dont need a huge space to build a rallycross track. More spectator banks would have been good but the 10 euro weekend admission for us Brits was a great gesture.

Obviously there must have been some previous between Pawels and Mertens for what happened, it was strange of Mertens to do it though as he was going better than Ive seen him go before, and was heading for a top 5 finish.

As for the Doran, Lindjfell incident at Lydden if he did have a problem with the car (which he obviously didnt) that suddenly made him drive into Lindjfell then I dont think he would have driven it back to the paddock at the speed he did.

[D Smeets]

Some of my pics online on my website:
www.davesmeets.nl

[chunder]

Dave

What the hell was going on between Mertens and Pauwels in one of the races, Mertens just followed him into the gravel trap, and kept on going

then gets out and is giving thumbs up to the crowd!

Do i get the feeling people dont like MrPauwels!

[BertMk2]

Originally Posted by D Smeets

Some of my pics online on my website:
www.davesmeets.nl

Some stunning photos there Just out of interest what camera and lens(es) are you using? Really sharp pictures and the colours are really well defined.

[schanche]

ERC Round 2 on ERC24 to watch now
http://erc24.com/2012/05/ccvp-videos-france-52m/

[rallycrossnl]

Seen from the Courteyn video, he was already at it in their first heat.
Off the startingline, Mertens steers into the leftside of Pauwels (04:22 into the video) taking himself out of the race. His family, fans and sponsors must be SO proud of him.