 |
|
15 May 2012, 12:38
|
#31
|
|
Veteran
Join Date: Jun 2011
Posts: 981
|
I would expect all the teams to have crew who are trained in fire fighting as they were essential in the days of refuelling, but it would be good housekeeping to keep their skills up to date.
One probable consequence of that fire is that some of the team's crew will stay in fire retardent clothing after the race to be ready deal with fire.
|
|
|
|
15 May 2012, 13:17
|
#32
|
 Race Official In Comfortable Shoes Veteran
Join Date: Dec 1998
Posts: 12,020
|
they are trained. if you look at some of the photos of the guys fighting the fire those are not the actions of first time extinguisher bandits, particularly the ones who were manning the hoses. they put it out. if they didn't know how to, it would have burned down the pit building.
what it's important to understand is that f1 is already tooled up to fight fires. there's already plenty of precautions taken in daily activities that you don't see or hear about in photos or on tv. you don't have to wear fireproofs all the time if you're handling the fuel responsibly and as such this was a freak accident that it seems didn't have anything to do with the way teams store or handle their fuel. they're not stupid and they have health and safety regs to dance to just like the rest of us. why do you think the caterham team uniform includes a hi-viz shirt for packup for example?
anyone who says otherwise hasn't been anywhere near f1 in person to see it in action.
|
|
__________________
devils advocate in-chief and professional arguer of both sides
|
|
15 May 2012, 17:02
|
#33
|
|
Subscriber
Veteran
Join Date: Dec 2002
Posts: 3,027
|
Quote:
Originally Posted by bella
. . . you don't have to wear fireproofs all the time if you're handling the fuel responsibly and as such this was a freak accident that it seems didn't have anything to do with the way teams store or handle their fuel.. . .
|
What? So you are saying that they were not handling the fuel responsibly? Or only when you are planning to have an accident should you bother with appropriate dress? Confused thinking here Bella.
Regards
Jim
|
|
|
__________________
Life is not safe, just chose where you want to take the risks.
|
|
15 May 2012, 19:49
|
#34
|
Race Official In Comfortable Shoes Veteran
Join Date: Dec 1998
Posts: 12,020
|
not really, jim. i don't know how fuel handling has anything to do with the alleged cause of this, which was a spark from another piece of kit. that piece of kit is where the problem lies, not the fact an inherently flammable thing caught fire when exposed to a source of ignition. electrical equipment shouldn't create uncontrolled sparks. wearing fireproofs all the time wouldn't have stopped the fire happening. it might have meant some people came away without some serious burns, but there would have still been a fire.
|
|
|
__________________
devils advocate in-chief and professional arguer of both sides
|
|
16 May 2012, 10:10
|
#35
|
|
Veteran
Join Date: Dec 2006
Posts: 1,005
|
Thought it was incredibly dumb of Sky to name a Williams team member who was dragged out of the fire with his legs on fire by a Sky camera man.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RznfekEqgQo
|
|
|
__________________
Cromley: "With the margin Gareth has, he doesn't need to play for sheep stations"
|
|
16 May 2012, 10:19
|
#36
|
|
Veteran
Join Date: Feb 2006
Posts: 3,626
|
In fairness, it was all so sudden that it's kind of difficult to prepare for a situation like that live on television.
Selby
|
|
|
__________________
Run-offs, chicanes, hairpins...
Think you can do better? Let's see it!
Check out the "My Tracks" forum here on Ten-Tenths.
|
|
16 May 2012, 11:11
|
#37
|
Race Official Veteran
Join Date: Mar 2005
Posts: 5,932
|
I thought Sky went into Sky News vulture mode by reporting on it like they report on other 'live' news. I felt it was rubbernecking on Sky's part to some extent. They could have gone off air when there was nothing more to say.
|
|
|
__________________
Can we just discuss the subject at hand rather than giving it this victim mentality?
|
|
16 May 2012, 11:17
|
#38
|
|
Veteran
Join Date: Oct 2008
Posts: 1,269
|
As far as i am aware, they didn't stay on air past thier scheduled time.
|
|
|
|
|
16 May 2012, 16:00
|
#39
|
|
Racer
Join Date: Dec 2008
Posts: 315
|
Quote:
Originally Posted by bella
they are trained. if you look at some of the photos of the guys fighting the fire those are not the actions of first time extinguisher bandits, particularly the ones who were manning the hoses. they put it out. if they didn't know how to, it would have burned down the pit building.
|
You obviously know nothing about fighting a fire then!
|
|
|
__________________
If a tree falls in a forest and there's no one there to hear it, does it make a noise?
|
|
16 May 2012, 21:34
|
#40
|
|
Racer
Join Date: Mar 2012
Posts: 161
|
Quote:
Originally Posted by TerryD
You obviously know nothing about fighting a fire then!
|
OK, ok, before this gets harsh, lets just remember that, whatever training they have (and I bet that's better then any workplace fire warden gets), everyone got out alive, most without injury, and the fire was under control within what can be considered a fast-time. Lets allow the FIA, and Williams to conduct their investigation, give recommendations as to what could have been done better, and enjoy what will hopefully be a very close race in Monaco in just over a week!
|
|
|
__________________
Race Track Marshal BMMC & Insurance Claims Handler
|
|
16 May 2012, 21:49
|
#41
|
Race Official In Comfortable Shoes Veteran
Join Date: Dec 1998
Posts: 12,020
|
well put chris. interesting how terry seems to have seen every image and video there is to see and know about exactly what was done to stop the fire spreading.
i don't envy them trying to put together a full it and electrical garage setup in a week either, particularly since they'll still be working out what they have and haven't lost. setup at monaco is a day earlier than everywhere else so they have even less time. thankfully this year the two races aren't back to back.
in some ways for the guys who experienced it first hand monaco is just about the worst one to go to immediately afterwards - the garages are small, hot and claustraphobic and there's only really one escape route - out the front doors. the back is full of stacks of warm tyres and random bits of bodywork. hopefully everyone is ok with that contrast.
|
|
|
__________________
devils advocate in-chief and professional arguer of both sides
|
|
16 May 2012, 22:05
|
#42
|
|
Racer
Join Date: Mar 2012
Posts: 161
|
Quote:
Originally Posted by bella
well put chris. interesting how terry seems to have seen every image and video there is to see and know about exactly what was done to stop the fire spreading.
i don't envy them trying to put together a full it and electrical garage setup in a week either, particularly since they'll still be working out what they have and haven't lost. setup at monaco is a day earlier than everywhere else so they have even less time. thankfully this year the two races aren't back to back.
in some ways for the guys who experienced it first hand monaco is just about the worst one to go to immediately afterwards - the garages are small, hot and claustraphobic and there's only really one escape route - out the front doors. the back is full of stacks of warm tyres and random bits of bodywork. hopefully everyone is ok with that contrast.
|
I just say it as I see it, and I see it very simple. The only facts we have are there was a fire from the fuel area. The cause has not yet been determined. They put the fire out and no-one died. Unfortunately people were injured but it could have been so much worse. And who are we to bash Williams if they did get it wrong. That is down to the governing body and the local authorities in Spain.
I hadn't thought about how different the Monaco garages are! I'm sure some very clever people are already thinking about what escape routes they can make, but as you say, the front really is the only true possibility! Touch wood that we don't get a repeat for a very long time (if ever), but I get the feeling it is something new for the people building the track in Austin to think about, and I bet they come up with the best possible sprinkler system as a precaution.
|
|
|
__________________
Race Track Marshal BMMC & Insurance Claims Handler
|
|
16 May 2012, 22:13
|
#43
|
|
Veteran
Join Date: Jun 2011
Posts: 981
|
Sprinkler systems if they use water are probably not the best idea in a pit garage as the most common fires in them involve fuel, oil, electrics and plastics.
A plentiful supply of powder followed by foam is probably what you would need.
|
|
|
|
|
17 May 2012, 09:34
|
#44
|
|
Racer
Join Date: Mar 2012
Posts: 161
|
Quote:
Originally Posted by wolfhound
Sprinkler systems if they use water are probably not the best idea in a pit garage as the most common fires in them involve fuel, oil, electrics and plastics.
A plentiful supply of powder followed by foam is probably what you would need.
|
Very true. When I worked in a fast food restaurant (all of 10 years ago now!) we had a sprinkler system called Ansul. This was a liquid/foam sprinkler that smoothers the flame to put it out very quickly. It would work on both the Broiler (quite literally a gas fire which the burgers pulled through), and the fryers. I don't know if something like that could be adapted for a Motorsport garage but I don't see why not!
|
|
|
__________________
Race Track Marshal BMMC & Insurance Claims Handler
|
|
17 May 2012, 09:41
|
#45
|
|
Racer
Join Date: Aug 2003
|
Adelaide, South Australia |
Posts: 316
|
Why not water mist? This is used in engine rooms of ships/submarines, which I would have thought would provide some of the same challenges?
|
|
|
|
| Thread Tools |
|
|
| Display Modes |
 Linear Mode
|
Posting Rules
|
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts
HTML code is Off
|
|
|
|
|
|
