Do Senna fans really hate Michael Schumacher?!! - Page 2 - 10-Tenths Motorsport Forum

Amaroo Park · 10 May 2002, 09:06

I really don't believe that Michael Schumacher should be mentioned in the same breath as Senna. I don't hate Schumacher but i don't like him either

calais · 10 May 2002, 09:10

no red, it was to the quote itself, not you

steve_r · 10 May 2002, 10:09

Quote:

Originally posted by paulzinho
Senna was my idol but I dont hate Michael, in fact i'm one of his fans. However I don't believe that Michael was in the same league as Senna, not in a million years. Look at 1993. Michael had a superior package, Senna had a lump of and he still whupped everyone except Prost, whom he kept honest and who was in a machine that was a cut above the rest.

None of his (reasonably fast) team mates (Herbert, Brundle, Verstappen, Irvine) could get anywhere near him. Only Rubens can get anywhere close. Surely that is what we look at to see how good a driver really is. Just how much better was the Williams when Sch won the titles in the Benneton? MSch definately in same league as Senna.

calais · 10 May 2002, 10:39

steve r, you are forgetting the fact that his teamates did not and dont have equal status in HIS teams.
i remember herbert complaining in 95 that he was not allowed to test, was not allowed to look at MS's telemetry,and the same could be sais of irvine and the rest.
definately not in senna's league,or prosts.

steve_r · 10 May 2002, 10:54

Yeah Calais, I know what you are saying. But that is all testimony to MSch, he exploded onto the scene in F1. Team managers recognised his immense speed, decided that he was world champion material, and built their whole team around the guy. What does that tell you about MSch? He has got to be in the same league as Senna.

calais · 10 May 2002, 10:58

yes but because of those facts i stated, their accomplishments cannot be seen in the same light.
that is my view anyway

steve_r · 10 May 2002, 11:16

Senna & MSch are unique drivers. Both brilliant, if only Imola had not happened...

laudaman · 10 May 2002, 12:10

Quote:

Originally posted by steve_r

None of his (reasonably fast) team mates (Herbert, Brundle, Verstappen, Irvine) could get anywhere near him. Only Rubens can get anywhere close. Surely that is what we look at to see how good a driver really is. Just how much better was the Williams when Sch won the titles in the Benneton? MSch definately in same league as Senna.

Sorry but I have to agree with Paulzinho on this one. In '93, Schumacher had the factory Ford engine and won one race whereas Senna had the customer Ford and won 5. Also, many people think Schumacher is the best driver in the wet but they seem to forget that he was one of the drivers blown away on the first lap at Donnington by Senna who, I'll reiterate, was in the worse car.

Senna is the greatest driver ever IMO. You only have to look at the number of poles he gained in 10 years, with a significant number being achieved at Lotus who probably only had the third or fourth best car when he was there (Dumfries & Nakajima showed where the car should have been on the grid), and also the margins he achieved (beating everyone by less than half a second was a rare occurance).

Also, if Prost had not had been around, Senna would have achieved a lot more and would be in the situation that Schumacher is in now. Schumacher has not had anyone who he can fight it out in the championship with and his utter domination shows this. As one of the previous messages said, he has achieved a lot more than he should have.

Sato san · 10 May 2002, 12:26

Quote:

Originally posted by calais
i remember herbert complaining in 95 that he was not allowed to test, was not allowed to look at MS's telemetry,

Herbert pushed MS very quick in early 95 , but as soon as MS felt Johnny was a threat to him , he had the team make him race with his hands tied halfway behind his back .

This is where the word RESPECT comes back into conversation . If MS is really the best , why try to slow down your team mates ?, if your the best driver out there , you should be able to beat the best , which in my mind means that you should surely be able to beat Johnny Herbert fair and square , without resorting to such silly actions . Which in effect , half killed Johnny's career ! .

steve_r · 10 May 2002, 12:29

Yes, Senna beat Schu back in '93. Was that Schu's first full GP season? I can't remember, but do you really want me to respond?

Ok, IMO: I don't think Schu was quite as his peak in 93, somthing to do with lack of experience. The raw speed was obvoiusly there though. You cannot possibly use this example to say that Senna was in a different league to Schu.

If Hakkinen & Hill were not around then Schu would have won many more races. This just as pointless as your argument about Prost taking wins off Senna. Schu did "Fight it out" with those two and with Villeneuve. You can only race against who else is on the grid. Presumably with F1 being the pinnacle of motorsport, you will always have some of the very best in the world driving F1 at any given time.

I'm not saying one is better than the other, but when you have people spouting rubbish that Schu is not even in the same league as Senna, I have to speak up. For the record, I am not a Schu fan, but I want to know when will people stop dissing his amazing achievements, just because thay don't like him.

calais · 10 May 2002, 12:42

steve r, how long have you been watching F1????
93 was schui's 3rd season in F1, so experience was not an issue {his second full season}.
senna had to contend with prost, mansell, piquet,berger, etc..
MS has had poor competition by comparison

**Bononi** · 10 May 2002, 12:53

Quote:

Originally posted by Yoong Montoya
I read somewhere that at the start of MS career the Brazillian television station refered to him as 'the German', never by his real name! Is this true? And, do fans of Senna try to put Schumacher down due to his so-called dirty tactics, when in fact they are also putting Senna down without knowing it, since he used tactics that were even worse than MS?

If this is the case, then the only thing I can conclude that for a successful driver to be considered a true great, he has to get killed while racing!

Well, Yoong Montoya.

I don't know where you read that, but it's not true.

I'm not a Senna fan, never been, and I witnessed the begining of both careers, by the view of the brazilian media.

TGF always was referred by his name. And he always been respected by the brazilian crowd, and is very popular here.

The way that the commentators talk about him, I guess, is much the way that Murray Walker used to do.

Maybe there's a little confusion in the way that people use to express concerning to a certain person.

It's very usual refer to TGF, when he is making his flying lap like : "Lá vem o alemão !!!" that is "Here comes the German !!!", expressing that the he's the big guy of F1 and will make the pole.

The only time I can remember the use of a expression meaning dislike, was about Prost, as the commentator ( a very close friend of Senna) referred to him as "The little frenchman"

R · 10 May 2002, 12:56

Laudaman, you are spot on. Of course TGF had competition from Hill, Jacques and Mika. The point is that none of these were of the same calibre as Prost, who Senna had to contend with. Had Senna not been killed, we would have seen TGF's real value. No, he never was, and never will be, in the same league as Senna.

steve_r · 10 May 2002, 12:57

Doesn't time fly! Only 2nd full season though. So, he had about the same experience as Button.

Schu also had to contend with Prost, Mansell, Berger... Did they become poorer competition when driving against Schu? (Berger?)
Actually you have a good point, When the above-mentioned guys dissappeared from the scene, F1 seemed in a state of flux. Hakkinen, Hill & Schu emerged as the new guys to beat. Therefore it is very hard to compare the different eras.

R · 10 May 2002, 13:09

It is hard, because the one guy who's presence would have answered that question beyond doubt died.

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