Montoya's the man in the wet - Page 5 - 10-Tenths Motorsport Forum

freud · 9 Jul 2002, 16:30

Originally posted by Red:

Quote:

Sure, he rarely takes a corner in opposite lock and that certainly makes him "not spectacular and boring"

See, Red, Your thinking looks crystal clear to me. Dont confuse yourself. Its OK to think that TGF is boring and not spectacular, I know many people think the sawm as you do. There is just nothing wrong with it! Dont blame yourself.

freud · 9 Jul 2002, 16:45

By the way, Red, another GP where Schu was definitely not boring was 'Jerez 1997'. Just to remind you....

Yoong Montoya · 9 Jul 2002, 21:13

Quote:

Originally posted by freud
By the way, Red, another GP where Schu was definitely not boring was 'Jerez 1997'. Just to remind you....

Or Suzuka 1998.

Red · 10 Jul 2002, 05:47

Quote:

Originally posted by freud
See, Red, Your thinking looks crystal clear to me. Dont confuse yourself. Its OK to think that TGF is boring and not spectacular, I know many people think the sawm as you do. There is just nothing wrong with it! Dont blame yourself. [/B]

Sheese Freud....... I DO NOT THINK THAT SCHUMACHER IS NOT SPECTACULAR!

It might be nothing wrong with it, BUT THIS IS NOT MY OPINION ON HIM! That was the fifth time I said it to you, if that was not enough I give up a hopeless cause....

Damon · 10 Jul 2002, 12:35

Blimey this threads gone somewhere!! Personally I think both drivers are spectatular pilots, although you can't really compare them this years as, like many have, schu has a car that does what he when he wants it to do it. JPM on the other hand has an aero lump with a powerful engine resulting in a car which requires constant correction. Both are equally spectacular however, in the amount of pace they are able to get from their respective cars.

freud · 10 Jul 2002, 18:36

Quote:

Originally posted by Red
Sheese Freud....... I DO NOT THINK THAT SCHUMACHER IS NOT SPECTACULAR! JULY 10, 2002

OMG, Red, this is utter denial of your own self. Its just like Toad saying one day after Austria that 'we made the right decision' and the second day 'we made the wrong decision'. Just Go back a few posts and read your own post (pity you cant edit it now):

he rarely takes a corner in opposite lock and that certainly makes him "not spectacular and boring"
JULY 09, 2002

I didnt knew that you are so much like the Toad.

Red · 11 Jul 2002, 07:06

Freud, now, pay attettion! Read my lips, ok? Focus, Freud, focus. (dammit, and I said I give up a hopeless cause.... hmmm... that indeed would be utter denial of my self ...

)

That excerpt that you've quoted contains 2 (two) sentences. No 1 starts from "he", ends in "lock" and contains "rarely takes a corner in opposite" inbetween. And I do not deny that this is my opinion on him. He drives well Freud. The second sentence, Freud, as I previously said, starts right after the "and" (used to connect those 2 sentences into a single phrase) and ends before a comma closely followed by "but he drives faster"(which you conveniently didn't include in that quote) and says "that certainly makes him "not spectacular and boring"" (that was not a typo, there are 2 quotation marks there. One from my original post.) My intention was to laugh of one of your posts (dated 09-07-2002 00:59 (GMT+2)) where you said said that Schumacher (who by the way won that race) was "far from being spectacular)

PS: Actually I remember when I watched him at Hungaroring, 2000. I had seats at corner 11. I watched him how he did that corner (because after lap 3 he didn't even try to pass Mika anymore and unless a mechanical problem the outcome of the race was pretty much clear). For 77 laps he braked exactly in the same point, he took exactly the same racing line, accelerated in the same point. Having David all over him at 0.5 seconds all the time. I returned home and, full of admiration, I described that to a friend of mine (who doesn't actually understand my "disease"). Before I had the opportunity to say that I was really impressed he said "whoa, I'm sorry for you, you paid big bucks to see only that.... boring.... And you didn't even see their face through the helmet.... :confused: Oh, no, it wasn't you

**Adam43** · 11 Jul 2002, 08:41

Sorry, messed up posting!

freud · 11 Jul 2002, 14:45

Quote:

Originally posted by Red
Freud, now, pay attettion! Read my lips, ok? Focus, Freud, focus. (dammit, and I said I give up a hopeless cause.... hmmm... that indeed would be utter denial of my self ... )

That excerpt that you've quoted contains 2 (two) sentences. No 1 starts from "he", ends in "lock" and contains "rarely takes a corner in opposite" inbetween. And I do not deny that this is my opinion on him. He drives well Freud. The second sentence, Freud, as I previously said, starts right after the "and" (used to connect those 2 sentences into a single phrase) and ends before a comma closely followed by "but he drives faster"(which you conveniently didn't include in that quote) and says "that certainly makes him "not spectacular and boring"" (that was not a typo, there are 2 quotation marks there. One from my original post.) My intention was to laugh of one of your posts (dated 09-07-2002 00:59 (GMT+2)) where you said said that Schumacher (who by the way won that race) was "far from being spectacular)

PS: Actually I remember when I watched him at Hungaroring, 2000. I had seats at corner 11. I watched him how he did that corner (because after lap 3 he didn't even try to pass Mika anymore and unless a mechanical problem the outcome of the race was pretty much clear). For 77 laps he braked exactly in the same point, he took exactly the same racing line, accelerated in the same point. Having David all over him at 0.5 seconds all the time. I returned home and, full of admiration, I described that to a friend of mine (who doesn't actually understand my "disease"). Before I had the opportunity to say that I was really impressed he said "whoa, I'm sorry for you, you paid big bucks to see only that.... boring.... And you didn't even see their face through the helmet.... :confused: Oh, no, it wasn't you

I wish you can trasfer some of the stuff you wrote above in English..

I just wish you were there with me at the qualifying session, Sepang 2001, when TGF opposite locked on the fast left hander that quickly turns to right. Actually I understand your position as you mentioned that you watch most of the GPs on TV and hence you really dont have a feel of the drivers on track. Well its OK to be like that. I hope you dont utterly deny your self-existence sometime in future.

Damon · 12 Jul 2002, 19:26

Did anyone read Nigel Roebucks article in this weeks Autosport? If so you would have read some of his very enlightened comments. For example "The greatness of Montoya's drive was masked by his tyres" and "On lap 13 when everyone was on dry weather tyres in the wet Montoya was 5 seconds quicker than schumacher, which beggers belief". It certainly does Nigel and it seems that you noticed as I did that 'Montoya's the man in the wet'.

Inigo Montoya · 12 Jul 2002, 20:13

And this proves? Well, to me, it proves that the Michelin dry tires run better in the wet than the Bridgestone dry tires.

Mr V · 13 Jul 2002, 07:24

And this proves?

The Ferrari/Bridgestone is so much faster in wet conditions that it's not the driver, just the car?

Inigo Montoya · 13 Jul 2002, 14:49

In variable conditions demanding intermediates, this year, I agree, the Ferrari/Bridgestone is the best combo- by miles! However, Michelin does make a good wet tire -on full wets, both packages are quite good.

Gt_R · 14 Jul 2002, 04:21

Two groups of people trying very hard to dis-credit each others' "driver of choice" from their good driving...and the point is?? Pointless! seesh

Considering how little time the 2 top guys spend together in the race...how people can come up with such "conclusive" conclusions of the greatness...

>>To those who ONLY see greatness in JPM.
Sure, no doubt JPM did a great job in Silverstone. In conditions which tripped many, JPM did a superb job considering the odds against him. But the way that you praise him...com'on, he made quite a few mistakes too. The so called "spectacular" driving actually consist of him going beyond the limit causing him to outbrake himself or end up messy to the ideal racing line! He could have been quicker.

>>To those who see NOTHING in JPM's performance
Hey, he did a good job okay? I was really surprised he took Rubens in the later part of the race, and that spells quite a lot in his ability. He also managed to keep a control on his car throughout the difficult conditions which shows great abilities...sure, mistakes are there...but who doesnt ever make mistakes? Even Schumacher does. But the good thing is his mistakes are small enough to be recovered without huge losses...most of the time.

Gt_R · 14 Jul 2002, 04:36

Two groups of people trying very hard to dis-credit each others' "driver of choice" from their good driving...and the point is?? Pointless! seesh

Considering how little time the 2 top guys spend together in the race...how people can come up with such "conclusive" conclusions of the greatness...

>>To those who ONLY see greatness in JPM.
Sure, no doubt JPM did a great job in Silverstone. In conditions which tripped many, JPM did a superb job considering the odds against him. But the way that you praise him...com'on, he made quite a few mistakes too. The so called "spectacular" driving actually consist of him going beyond the limit causing him to outbrake himself or end up messy to the ideal racing line! He could have been quicker.

>>To those who see NOTHING in JPM's performance
Hey, he did a good job okay? I was really surprised he took Rubens in the later part of the race, and that spells quite a lot in his ability.(not that there is ever much doubt) He also managed to keep a control on his car throughout the difficult conditions which shows great abilities...sure, mistakes are there...but who doesnt ever make mistakes? Even Schumacher does. But the good thing is his mistakes are small enough to be recovered without huge losses...most of the time. His career had been boosted by some very impressive performances...good enough not to be marred by some poor performances as well..but remember..it's only his 2nd year in competitive F1 racing.

>>To those who see NOTHING in MS.
Hmm...boring and not spectacular? FAR from it. Com'on, stop being a clown and bring up Jerez 97

Schumacher had proved his critics dead wrong... who said Schumacher had lost the plot? who said Schumacher can't race wheel to wheel? More than that...he showed he isn't afraid to stick his car right next to JPM, despite the "do-or-die" attitude JPM have. Tactically all over the back, he made JPM drive the socks out of his feet. Wheel to wheel...pure racers stuff. And how about being in the moist, and even wet track, with very worn intermediates with very shallow threads left...? Still fast, clean and precise, no mistakes...when drivers still make mistakes on deeply threaded wets...who said his crown of being beatiful in changable conditions was stolen?

>>To those who ONLY see good in MS.
Nurburgring shows...MS still makes occasional mistakes. In Silverstone, his qualifying is a little worry. Is anything wrong? Not too sure...we need more time to judge. Few things to fault MS in Silverstone, like JPM too, but to be fair, his car is as good as his ability. Which made him a deadly force. Compliment the car and tires too for his great drive in Silverstone...without taking or giving too much from his own.

PS.Sorry for the "double post" not sure too why the previous post was there.

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