Why are trainees not....... - 10-Tenths Motorsport Forum

brickkicker · 16 Sep 2002, 19:07

Can anyone say why the MSA (RAC) do not recognise trainees as marshals (as in your not licensed). If you are a trainee clerk, timekeeper, scrutineer or any other job on race day you are licensed.
Does this mean that if you get hurt then you are not insured by the MSA?
Would it be really that hard for the MSA to at least acknowledge marshals do train?
Just a thought
BRICKKICKER

Peter Scillitoe · 16 Sep 2002, 19:35

Quote:

Originally posted by brickkicker
Can anyone say why the MSA (RAC) do not recognise trainees as marshals (as in your not licensed). If you are a trainee clerk, timekeeper, scrutineer or any other job on race day you are licensed.
Does this mean that if you get hurt then you are not insured by the MSA?

Anybody working a MSA licensed event must sign-on, and at that point become covered by insurance whether a trainee or not.

brickkicker · 16 Sep 2002, 20:03

OK then they are covered by insurance thats one answered but they could at least show they do exsist by giving them a license

Novice · 16 Sep 2002, 20:10

I am a trainee marshal and have a registration card as well as an upgrading card. Is there another piece of paper that I should have or are the 2 bits of paper given to me by the BRSCC sufficient?

Dave Brand · 17 Sep 2002, 08:58

Quote:

Originally posted by Novice
I am a trainee marshal and have a registration card as well as an upgrading card. Is there another piece of paper that I should have or are the 2 bits of paper given to me by the BRSCC sufficient?

Your two bits of paper are all you need. I assume that you've got the green MSA registration card, but what you won't have, & what brickkicker is commenting on, is an MSA registration number - you'll get that when you get your green badge.

**b1ackcr0w** · 17 Sep 2002, 22:36

I think this thread proves something I have thought for a while. The MSA are to be congratulated for making the career structure of a marshal consolidated and clear. However there is still some work to be done at the trainee/novice level. Not all the problems are the making of the MSA. Indeed I think the majority of the problem lie with the organising clubs who all have their own ideas about how to run the scheme and thus send out a confused message. For instance whereas one person on this page got their licence in their first year, I wasn't even told about it until the start of my second season.

If this seems pedantic then so be it, It's all too often the little things that count - THE DEVIL IS IN THE DETAIL!

garagegirl · 22 Sep 2002, 19:15

if you're a trainee they dont let you do much from what ive heard, they only see one word 'trainee'

Dave Brand · 22 Sep 2002, 20:16

Quote:

Originally posted by garagegirl
if you're a trainee they dont let you do much from what ive heard, they only see one word 'trainee'

I can only speak from personal experience; I was a trainee last year. I was always made to feel part of the team I was working with & was expected to play an active part in the work of the team, under the supervision of, & with the assistance & guidance of, more experienced marshals. The attitude I always encountered was that, as a trainee, I was there to gain experience & the only way that could be done was by involvement.

Most of my marshalling as a trainee was at Oulton Park; other circuits may treat trainees differently.....

garagegirl · 23 Sep 2002, 08:36

i go to brands, and from what ive learnt listening to other trainees unless you make experience totally clear they only see the word trainee. this is a bit dumb as some trainees are only so cos they've not done a training day yet, but have got all their signatures

KayBee · 23 Sep 2002, 09:26

Quote:

Originally posted by brickkicker
Can anyone say why the MSA (RAC) do not recognise trainees as marshals (as in your not licensed). If you are a trainee clerk, timekeeper, scrutineer or any other job on race day you are licensed.
Does this mean that if you get hurt then you are not insured by the MSA?

Once you have signed on you are insured. However, do you have to have previous marshal experience to be any of the following: trainee clerk, timekeeper and scrutineer or can you go straight in to do that duty?

Quote:

Originally posted by brickkicker Would it be really that hard for the MSA to at least acknowledge marshals do train? Just a thought

New (Trainee) marshals receive their MSA licence number once they have either their Green (Course) or Grey (Specialist) badge so their training is being acknowledged.

brickkicker · 23 Sep 2002, 09:53

Quote:

Once you have signed on you are insured. However, do you have to have previous marshal experience to be any of the following: trainee clerk, timekeeper and scrutineer or can you go straight in to do that duty?

What I mean is as a trainee clark, traniee timekeeper and trainee scrutineer you get an MSA card, officials year books (that include things marshals should know) and a badge ect. As a trainee marshal you are not recognised by the MSA.

Dave Brand · 23 Sep 2002, 11:30

Quote:

Originally posted by garagegirl
i go to brands, and from what ive learnt listening to other trainees unless you make experience totally clear they only see the word trainee. this is a bit dumb as some trainees are only so cos they've not done a training day yet, but have got all their signatures

Most of the observers & IOs I know will, when organising their teams for the day, ask any trainees on post how many meetings they have done & take that into account when pairing up. Most recognise that the badge only tells part of the story.

Bodysnatcher · 23 Sep 2002, 12:04

Quote:

Originally posted by garagegirl
i go to brands, and from what ive learnt listening to other trainees unless you make experience totally clear they only see the word trainee. this is a bit dumb as some trainees are only so cos they've not done a training day yet, but have got all their signatures

I'm not sure what your problem/point is? Your 2 posts tell me that you're getting your information 2nd hand.

Quote:

from what ive heard

Quote:

what ive learnt listening to other trainees

I think your close relative Novice has been treated fairly well (at least by me I hope). What's your own personal experience?

Different trainees will get different treatment, that's how it's got to be.

If in the morning briefing a trainee tells me that he/she has done 5 or 6 meetings, then I'll be more comfortable with them than a trainee who's out on the bank for the first time.
Likewise if a trainee is not able to communicate clearly the experience they've had so far then closer supervision may be required.
Each person is different and I have to judge how best to utilise them. It may be that I'll feel happiest with them standing back and doing nothing until told otherwise.

When I was a trainee I accepted there were posts I could'nt do and that there were other more menial tasks heading my way. Likewise I found observers/other marshals who were pretty ****ty in there attitudes. Sink or swim I guess!

Bodysnatcher · 23 Sep 2002, 12:06

Quote:

Originally posted by garagegirl
i go to brands, and from what ive learnt listening to other trainees unless you make experience totally clear they only see the word trainee. this is a bit dumb as some trainees are only so cos they've not done a training day yet, but have got all their signatures

I'm not sure what your problem/point is? Your 2 posts tell me that you're getting your information 2nd hand.

Quote:

from what ive heard

Quote:

what ive learnt listening to other trainees

I think your close relative Novice has been treated fairly well (at least by me I hope). What's your own personal experience?

Different trainees will get different treatment, that's how it's got to be.

If in the morning briefing a trainee tells me that he/she has done 5 or 6 meetings, then I'll be more comfortable with them than a trainee who's out on the bank for the first time.
Likewise if a trainee is not able to communicate clearly the experience they've had so far then closer supervision may be required.
Each person is different and I have to judge how best to utilise them. It may be that I'll feel happiest with them standing back and doing nothing until told otherwise.

When I was a trainee I accepted there were posts I could'nt do and that there were other more menial tasks heading my way. Likewise I found observers/other marshals who were pretty ****ty in their attitudes. Sink or swim I guess!

Novice · 23 Sep 2002, 12:24

Bodysnatcher, Garagregirl was not doing her normal duties this weekend, Paddock Office, she was with aother trainee in assembly area and then asked to go into pitlane and then onto startline. I do not agree that she should have been in pitlane and should definatley not have been on startline. I know that she was most uncomfortable with this.

Her comments have most definatley not come from me as I feel that I have been treated very well when out on post. I always make a point of letting the observer know that I am a trainee and what experience that I have had. The day that I worked with you was the first time that I had an incident to deal with, and I worked under your supervision. For this I am eternally grateful as it gave me some experience, but with the next day came new experinces with different incidents.

What you have to remember here is that garagegirl is only 16 and she has been influenced by other marshals, trainees, to which I have no control over. In time I hope to guide her to the correct ways and to think about what she is saying, i.e mouth engages before brain. I will try and find out what her problems are and let you know this weekend if you are there.

And yes you are right you did treat me very well whn I worked with you andlook forward to working with you again.

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