Why are trainees not.......

[Mark Mitchell]

Why do the MSA have LICENCED Officials (Clerks, Stewards, Scrutineers, Medical People etc) who will get an ID badge, BB, and a quarterly copy of the MSA Magazine?
UNLICENCED Officials (Marshals Generally) are not even sent a copy of the Mag - which often contains Marshalling issues?

I have been both - a trainee Scrutineer and an "Ordinary" Marshal.

My Marshals Registration Card is all I get from the MSA for being a "Marshal", yet somehow I am seen as being more worthy an Official, by being a Scrute and given a badge and a Mag!

Is that not a way of the MSA making us Marshals feel inferior?

[Dave Brand]

Originally Posted by archaic gold

To go back to basics, I think that the MSA do not regard "Trainees" as Marshals, purely because of administration!! It can cost person hours and a considerable cost to enter all their details onto the MSA database. The Individual Trainee, may only complete one or two Meetings and decide that it is not for him/her. Once the required signatures ahve been gained, then o'k; the MSA can say we have a true Marshal and then place them onto the database.

You're probably right, but does that give the right message to trainees......'you're not a true marshal'?

Maybe some sort of compromise would be in order - give marshals 'official' status after obtaining, say, five attendance signatures?

[mini1400]

Originally Posted by Bodysnatcher

Bodysnatcher - tick
Novice - cross
EvilPumpkin - tick
MagnetOn - tick

be very VERY afraid little mini noviate

It'll be good to get back to civilisation after three weekends at Snetterton

[archaic gold]

I have to agree with Mark (Mitchell). Being a Clerk and an Observer, I agree why does the MSA not trat all as the same? The only reason I can think of, that across the board (except probationers) is that Scrutineers, Clerks etc etc have to pay to register, whereas, all processing of Marshals is free to the applicant! Any more thoughts on this??

[Mark Mitchell]

Originally Posted by archaic gold

The only reason I can think of.......is that Scrutineers, Clerks etc etc have to pay to register, whereas, all processing of Marshals is free to the applicant!

Possibly!
I was only ever a Trainee Environmental Scrute and as such never had to pay for my Licence.

I don't know about other Countries and their ASN's but Australia (CAMS - Of which I am a member) sends regular magazines to Marshals and Senior Officials alike.

[Kermit Power]

The grand total of my marshalling experience to date is 5 days across 3 meets, so I suppose that puts me right in the middle of what is being debated here

I do wonder whether the question being asked is the right one? Should it instead maybe be whether trainee marshalls are properly handled on post?

So far, I have spent a day in pits/startline at Brands with the MGCC, another in the pits at Thruxton, one out on the bank for the trucks at Thruxton and two on the bank at Brands for the BTCC, all with BARC.

Over the course of these events, amongst other things, I've green flagged the back of the grid for cars, called trucks into position on the grid, and helped manhandle Formula Renaults dangling off cranes.

All of these were new experiences for me, and the one and only thing they had in common was that in each instance I was teamed up with someone who knew exactly what they were doing, and was good at communicating that knowledge to me. As a result, I've felt completely confident with everything I've done, and not given any thought to whether the MSA is treating me as it should. I can imagine that if, on the other hand, I'd not felt so comfortable with what I've been asked to do, or felt less confident about piping up and declaring my lack of experience, I might well have been feeling rather more concerned about my status with the MSA.

I've also been lucky enough to do all my marshalling to date in lovely sunny weather! I'm sure there must be many a potential marshal who gets utterly soaked and freezing cold at their first attempt, and never goes back. I've seen plenty of posts on here about how long it can take the MSA to get grading and the like processed, so if they had to also process every single person who turned up even once, I guess it would put a real strain on the system?

Based on my limited experience, my advice to anyone new would be to pipe up about what experience you have got, and also what you would like to get experience of, and not to worry about the MSA!

[Mark Mitchell]

Good points there Kermit!

Why can't new marshals join at a level they feel comfortable with?
There may be potential marshals, say, of a mature age bracket, that would love to get involved but really wouldn't want to be hopping over armco and pushing cars. They may make ideal flag marshals however!
So, at a time when we need more recruits can't the powers-that-be change the whole set-up and allow newcomers to flag etc?

[Shelagh]

Much as I appreciate the MSA trying to appear as if they know what they are doing, I still wonder just what the benefits of the Marshals' register are.

Every year (or every other year), I get a card that I'm supposed to stick a photo on - for what???? The only time I've ever used my "licence" was at Le Mans when we couldn't find the stuff they'd sent. Otherwise ................

I know they planned to charge for "licences" way back when, but one has to ask what its all about now they backed out of that. I have never got an attendance signature (deliberately) so just what does that piece of paper prove????

[ceanndubhain]

I have been a trainee marshal since April, mostly at Brands, and have never been made feel inferior or not been given the oppotunity to get involved just because I am trainee.

The reaction I find I am getting now, because I have attended quite a number of meetings this year (15 so far), is I may be a trainee by grade but I have more than enough experience to be put with anyone on the bank and to get on with it.

I have been given the opportunity to flag on a number of occaisions which has been great experience, and have been given tonnes of invaluable advice which I don't think would have been passed on to me unless I was still a trainee.

As for not having an MSA licence. It really doesn't matter if I have a licence if I am not capable of doing an efficient and safe job. I wouldn't expect to be given a full driving licence until I had passed my test, which I could not do without practice.

The only thing I have found an issue with not having an MSA licence yet is that I can not volunteer to marshal at the GP or overseas. Other than that I am happy with things as they are at the moment. I am treated really well no matter where I have marshaled

I have received all my upgrade signatures and only need my training days to get upgraded to course marshal. This I hope will happen early next year, but until then I will keep going along to meetings, enjoying myself, meeting some great people, learning new things and completely forgetting I am a trainee because if experience has taught me anything, no one else will hold it against me.

Rant over. I think I will settle down with a diet pepsi and watch motors TV

[Novice]

Originally Posted by mini1400

Made me check the date of the postings.... I didn't think Novice was still a trainee

Anyway, BS & Novice, you doing the FF Fest (or should that be FF & Caterham Fest)?

Still a trainee something or other. Anyway we never stop gaining experience from our mistakes, incidents and colleages.

As for the Festival (Ford or Caterham you make your mind up) I have decided to give it a miss again this year as there are going to be enough magnets around for the Fordy boys without me enticing them across the beach

I might try and pop in on the Sunday as a speccy if I can blag a ticket or will it be a wristband off someone.

[Novice]

Originally Posted by JimW

Leaving aside garagegirls' experiences, can I try and clarify my understanding of the MSA recognition issue.

Just for information Garagegirl gave up the sport due to boyfriends and the club that we were members of.

[Mark Mitchell]

Originally Posted by Shelagh

Much as I appreciate the MSA trying to appear as if they know what they are doing

[Stack]

Originally Posted by Mark Mitchell

Why can't new marshals join at a level they feel comfortable with?

I think the main worry with that idea Mark is that whatever a new marshal may feel comfortable with may not be good enough for what the duty requires. For example, they may feel confident to wave a flag but would it be at the correct time and would other times a flag is required be missed because of a lack of experience?

My circumstances are thus. I was a marshal in the 80's but because I have no proof I have had to go through the trainee stage when I restarted this year. To date I have marshalled 30 days including obs, flag and incident duties and also turn one observer at Rockingham (I have some oval experience from the states) and I am still classed as a trainee because I have not been official made up to course by the MSA.
My main gripe about this is that when a chief marshal sees 'trainee' on my availability he will tend to put me on a *safe* post over one where I would think I would be more useful.

[archaic gold]

Ceanndubhain: How heartening to read your Post - This is what Marshalling is all about; and it is certainly not a "rant" by yourself! Hopefully, we will have all aspects of Training completed in early 2007, but I accept, perhaps a little late to help your application for the 2007 BGP. Keep up the good work!