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Old 29 Apr 2003, 16:43 (Ref:584012)   #1
crazytrain
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PT admits to using traction control from 1994 onwards??

very interesting, and we thought it was only around last year!!!!!

http://www.tsn.ca/auto_racing/news_s...39541&hubName=


Tracy confirms traction control use


Associated Press



4/29/2003

WEST ALLIS, Wis. (AP) - CART leader Paul Tracy of Toronto admits he used traction control from 1994 until this year.

He said the illegal driver aid contributed to "terrible racing" at times in the series.

"People were saying there was no traction control," Tracy said at a fan forum Monday night at State Fair Park. "We actually had it, but you weren't allowed to say you had it or you'd get your arm cut off by your team owner and engine supplier."

Teams and manufacturers have accused their rivals for years of using electronic driver aids without admitting to their use themselves. Traction control was legalized last year because it was virtually impossible to detect.





It was eliminated this year when it was deemed unnecessary because Ford Cosworth is the series' sole engine supplier. Tracy said that has enhanced competition and helped the more talented and experienced drivers excel.



"This year you're going to see a lot of passing, you're going to see a lot of action on the track because what they did was take away a lot of the driver aids," Tracy said. "It brings it back more to the driver and car."



This year Tracy became the first driver in CART history to take the first three races of the season. He also is the first to accomplish the feat in American open-wheel racing since Al Unser won the first three races in 1971.



Tracy, who has 22 career victories, is still looking for his first series championship.



When it comes to unifying the two open-wheel series - CART and IRL - Tracy says he doesn't see it happening in his lifetime despite the amount of work done behind the scenes.



"I don't really see, at least from the end of my racing career," explained Tracy. "I don't mean to sound negative or anything, but I've been involved with CART a long time and I've been involved with teams that have been on the inside, both Barry (Green) and (Roger) Penske were very involved in trying to get the two to come back together."



"I think CART is trying to take every step to get back together, to try to work something out with Tony George. And every time things would get close, he would move the ball somewhere else."



"That league was supposed to be for young American drivers, all American-based series, keeping the cost low. Now you've got races overseas and majority of the field is European and Brazilian drivers. It's very frustrating. Maybe it will all come together in the end, but right now I don't see it happening."
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Old 29 Apr 2003, 16:48 (Ref:584015)   #2
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I'd like to know what year did Pensky win 16 races in one season with Little Al, PT, and Fittipaldi?
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Old 29 Apr 2003, 17:35 (Ref:584060)   #3
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macdaddy has a real shot at the podium!macdaddy has a real shot at the podium!macdaddy has a real shot at the podium!macdaddy has a real shot at the podium!
Wasn't that in 94?
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Old 29 Apr 2003, 17:49 (Ref:584076)   #4
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That's stunning news.
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Old 29 Apr 2003, 18:40 (Ref:584132)   #5
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I love this guy!

And y'know, I wasn't a big fan of PT before he grew the beard. But he's really grown on me as he's matured.

Oh, and to those who support the V10 formula, or the breakaway series in F1, take note! Manufacturers will do anything and everything it takes to win... The sport be damned.

Last edited by Lee Janotta; 29 Apr 2003 at 18:41.
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Old 29 Apr 2003, 18:57 (Ref:584152)   #6
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Oh my goodness!!! Teams using undetectable illegal methods to win races? What a surprise. Get real. This has and will always be the case. Would you really expect anything different?

I'm a little surprised Paul would say anything about it unless it is his method of suggesting that a spec formula has its merits. Otherwise, he has openly admitted that he personally is not to be trusted to either play by the rules or keep a secret.

What's up with that?
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Old 29 Apr 2003, 19:09 (Ref:584158)   #7
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Quote:
Originally posted by crazytrain
I'd like to know what year did Pensky win 16 races in one season with Little Al, PT, and Fittipaldi?
They didn't quite win all 16. Penske ran Unser, Tracy and Fittipaldi in 1994 and won 12 of the 16 races that year (many of them in utterly dominant fashion). Unser took 8 wins and the title, Tracy 3 wins and Emmo just the 1.
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Old 29 Apr 2003, 19:12 (Ref:584161)   #8
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macdaddy has a real shot at the podium!macdaddy has a real shot at the podium!macdaddy has a real shot at the podium!macdaddy has a real shot at the podium!
How many times did they sweep the podium? That was a rather boring TGF-ish season because of the utter dominance.
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Old 29 Apr 2003, 19:33 (Ref:584177)   #9
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Quote:
Originally posted by macdaddy
How many times did they sweep the podium? That was a rather boring TGF-ish season because of the utter dominance.
CART 1994 - podiums :
Rc 1 (Surfers) : 1 Mi Andretti, 2 Emmo, 3 Ma Andretti
Rc 2 (Phoenix) : 1 Emmo, 2 Al Unser Jr, 3 Mansell
Rc 3 (Long Beach) : 1 Al Unser Jr, 2 Mansell, 3 Gordon
Rc 4 (Indianapolis) : 1 Al Unser Jr, 2 Villeneuve, 3 Rahal
Rc 5 (Milwaukee) : 1 Al Unser Jr, 2 Emmo, 3 Tracy - (1)
Rc 6 (Detroit) : 1 Tracy, 2 Emmo, 3 Gordon
Rc 7 (Portland) : 1 Al Unser Jr, 2 Emmo, 3 Tracy - (2)
Rc 8 (Cleveland) : 1 Al Unser Jr, 2 Mansell, 3 Tracy
Rc 9 (Toronto) : 1 Mi Andretti, 2 Rahal, 3 Emmo
Rc 10 (Michigan) : 1 Goodyear, 2 Luyendyk, 3 Dobson
Rc 11 (Mid-Ohio) : 1 Al Unser Jr, 2 Tracy, 3 Emmo - (3)
Rc 12 (New Hampshire) : 1 Al Unser Jr, 2 Tracy, 3 Emmo - (4)
Rc 13 (Vancouver) : 1 Al Unser Jr, 2 Gordon, 3 Mi Andretti
Rc 14 (Road America) : 1 Villeneuve, 2 Al Unser Jr, 3 Emmo
Rc 15 (Nazareth) : 1 Tracy, 2 Al Unser Jr, 3 Emmo - (5)
Rc 16 (Laguna Seca) : 1 Tracy, 2 Boesel, 3 Villeneuve

5 clean sweeps of the podium that is (its one reason for justifying not having 3 car teams in F1)

New Hampshire the Penskes finished within a few seconds of each other and Boesel in 4th place was 2 laps down (200 lap race). Nazareth they were even more dominant; all non-Penskes were a lap down within a quarter distance and the first non-Penske (again Boesel) was 4 (FOUR) laps behind.

Yep - utter dominance. But at least (unlike Ferrari) the Penskes were allowed to RACE each other.
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Old 29 Apr 2003, 20:00 (Ref:584212)   #10
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Quote:
Originally posted by Lee Janotta
Oh, and to those who support the V10 formula, or the breakaway series in F1, take note! Manufacturers will do anything and everything it takes to win... The sport be damned.
Very true! Sad as it is, the only rule in racing is don't get caught...
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Old 29 Apr 2003, 21:55 (Ref:584367)   #11
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JohnSSC has a real shot at the podium!JohnSSC has a real shot at the podium!JohnSSC has a real shot at the podium!JohnSSC has a real shot at the podium!JohnSSC has a real shot at the podium!
The motto used to be: "Cheat to beat!"
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Old 29 Apr 2003, 22:22 (Ref:584382)   #12
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Real funny JohnSSC!
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Old 29 Apr 2003, 22:35 (Ref:584386)   #13
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Fish_Flake should be qualifying in the top 3 on the gridFish_Flake should be qualifying in the top 3 on the gridFish_Flake should be qualifying in the top 3 on the grid
I can believe Penske used traction control in 1994, and again in 1995. Did TC move on when he switched to TKG?
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Old 29 Apr 2003, 23:23 (Ref:584400)   #14
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Are we talking about Team Penske being the only ones to use TC or are we talking about every team in CART??
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Old 29 Apr 2003, 23:48 (Ref:584410)   #15
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Penske first, then probably _most_ of the teams, certainly the ones at the front. Ganassi, Newman-Haas, Green, Forsythe...
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Old 30 Apr 2003, 01:21 (Ref:584461)   #16
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Well I can't say I'm surprised. I'm more surprised that it took this long to leak out. It's hard to keep a secret when a lot of people know it. I suppose that will be the down side to having several engine manufacturers in the series again...
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Old 30 Apr 2003, 01:42 (Ref:584470)   #17
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Does CART have anything in place for policing the use of traction control? I know there's been a lot of talk on the subject in F1 with the elimination of TC next year, but how would they know?
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Old 30 Apr 2003, 01:48 (Ref:584475)   #18
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Some of the other folks here can give you a complete answer on this and I'm a little out of my knowledge base, but I think it has to do with a CART supplied or regulated Engine Control Unit (ECU).
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Old 30 Apr 2003, 01:54 (Ref:584481)   #19
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Oh right! CART supplies the ECU, so it could simply be made incapable of operating TC. But could they prevent the teams from having a secondary unit hidden away for it? Actually, is the ECU what's responsible for controlling TC, cause I know it's mostly for fuel injection and the like?
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Old 30 Apr 2003, 08:09 (Ref:584661)   #20
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The question is...should we applaud PT for being the only driver with any guts... who finally admitted to using TC in the past when it was illegal or should we be upset with him for not being able to keep his big mouth shut?? Of course the other big question is... how is CART going to police the use of TC? With all the technology CART has, you would think that they would have no problems nabbing the cheaters. But it's probably a lot harder then we think.
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Old 30 Apr 2003, 09:37 (Ref:584724)   #21
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Crash Test should be qualifying in the top 5 on the gridCrash Test should be qualifying in the top 5 on the grid
CART's big star has just tipped the bucket on the hand that feeds him... of all of the people, you would think that someone bitter and twisted would have let rip with this little corker....

Kudos to those who cheated, well it wasn't cheating, because it is only cheating if you get caught... I guess it raises questions as to why they allowed TC under the rules- did someone pipe up, or did they finally figure it out after 8 years? I suppose it raises questions about what the heck the CART Tech folk were up to all these years, and what else mad it through...
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Old 30 Apr 2003, 12:07 (Ref:584913)   #22
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Well just proves you can have good racing with TC...
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Old 30 Apr 2003, 13:56 (Ref:585063)   #23
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The reason they don't have it this year is because it's part of the engine management, and puts a bit of stress on the engine. So Ford said "heck, we're giving everyone the same lump, make it last, take that TC code out of the CPU. Saves us money, and we can crow about reducing driver aids to improve the show."
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Old 30 Apr 2003, 18:10 (Ref:585388)   #24
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Snrub should be qualifying in the top 5 on the gridSnrub should be qualifying in the top 5 on the grid
Clearly in the past TC was not as effective as it was in 2002. There are different levels of TC, different ways of doing it. If I recall in F1 a lot of the fuss was over using the pitspeed limiter to implement TC. It has little baring if you gain .01 secs in the pits due to a better launch getting to 50.

It with the right sensors, I would think it would be easy to detect. Creating a graph of throttle vs. wheel spin should leave little doubt. However I suppose one could design TC to mimic what it would look like if a driver was controlling the tires.

As for 'having the guts to come forward', Tracy has nothing to loose at this point. Everyone else was in the same situation and his reputation is not tarnished.

Look at Penske's 1-2-3s. Mostly ovals where TC doesn't make any difference.

Yes you can have good racing with moderate or even full TC, but you get better racing without any.
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Old 30 Apr 2003, 23:19 (Ref:585748)   #25
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CART's big star has just tipped the bucket on the hand that feeds him... of all of the people, you would think that someone bitter and twisted would have let rip with this little corker....
Crash Test, you make a good point. With as much mud slinging as Chip Ganassi or Mikey were doing on the way out, I'm surprised that we didn't hear about the traction control then.

I don't agree though, that Paul did anything to the hand that fed him. His former employers are in the IRL (Penske and Green) and he doesn't own them anything on this issue. He didn't work for Players before so it shouldn't be a problem with them. In fact, I think they are pretty happy with him right now.

Going back to the first point, a lot of people had to know. How did they keep that quite. The first time someone says "Don't tell anyone..." you can just about count on somebody telling someone and pretty soon everyone knows.
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