Surtees TS15 - 10-Tenths Motorsport Forum

znarfg · 5 Oct 2004, 14:32

Hello all,
have anyone information about the cassis numbers of Surtees TS 15 Formula 2 Cars. How many cars was build?

Jeremy Jackson · 5 Oct 2004, 17:37

At least 12 in 1973, according to a list David McKinney produced on TNF. The 1974 TS15As seem a bit more suspect.

znarfg · 6 Oct 2004, 08:22

Thanks to Jeremy,
I'm looking for the cassis numbers of the different Teams, the Fina Team with Derek Bell, Jochen Mass, Andrea de Adamich, Torsten Palm-, the Matchbox Team with Carlos Pace, Mike Hailwood, the Hesketh Team with James Hunt.
Did anyone knows the numbers??

Dan Rear · 6 Oct 2004, 08:29

Presumably some of the F At cars were included in the list of 12. Peter Wardle had an F At car over here in 73-74, Bob Salisbury too. I presume these were built as Atlantics, rather than F2 converts.

Chris Townsend · 6 Oct 2004, 11:43

TS15-01 Debuted by Hailwood, 1972 Temporada. Sold to David McConnell for 1973. 1975 maybe the car that surfaces in the hands of Gerd Biechteler

TS15-02 Works car for Jochen Mass

TS15-03 Works car for Hailwood and Derek Bell. Possibly rebuilt into TS15A-03 in 1974.

TS15-04 Sold new to Graeme Lawrence [NZ] retained to 1975 then to Rex Hart. 1982 to Ken Smith

TS15-05 Rented to Hesketh for James Hunt. Returned to works and used in 1974 by John Watson and Jose Dolhem

TS15-06 Sold new to Peter Wardle for UK F.Atlantic. Retained to end 1975, then to Steve Carvill. Maybe the car used by Jim Ravenscroft in 1977.

TS15-07 Sold new to Bob Gerard for Robert Salisbury

TS15-08 Not known in 73-74. According to F1R the car used by Francy Jerancic 1975-78 in Euro F2 and may have been the de Adamich car which was never raced.

TS15-09 Works car Mike Hailwood

TS15-10 Not known

TS15-11 Not known

TS15-12 Works car Jochen Mass

Two cars are sold new where I can't find a reference to chassis number. One of these is to de Adamich, which isn't raced in 1973, the other to Takahashi Yorino in Japan - presumably these are accounted for by numbers 8, 10, 11
I can't tell you which works car was used in which race.

All numbers come from a mixture of Motoring News, Autosport, F1R and NZ Motor Action.

After 1973 there seem to be a lot of TS15s in Japan [any help appreciated]
They appear in the hands of
Matsuaki Sanada
Kikuo Kaira [this could be Sanada's car]
Masahiro Hasemi
Jiro Yoneyama [retained to 1977]
Kazuyoshi Hoshino

TS15A [1974] All except chassis 5 were fitted with BMW M12 engine
These numbers are more suspect since they come from F1R not MN

01. Works for Fausto Morello
02: Works for Guillermo Ortega
03: Works for Tim Schenken. Advertised recently from France with a history post Surtees of Yves Courage [1977-78] then Germain Drouet in hillclimbs to 1989
04: Works: John Watson
05: BDA engine. Works: Jose Dolhem, then 1975 to Pechek for Hans Meier

The only mystery car so far after this is the one owned by Otto Stuppacher and run by Ewald Boisitz in 1975 - though this might be a mis-appelation of the Biechteler TS15.

znarfg · 6 Oct 2004, 12:50

Hi Chris,
thanks for the informations. I've found a chassis in Germany. I think it's the former Biechteler car. Your information may be helpfull to identify the car.

Dan Rear · 6 Oct 2004, 15:32

Does the aborted 'TS17' supposed Essex F5000 fit into this picture at all? Rumoured to be being made in 1974-75 IIRC...

Chris Townsend · 7 Oct 2004, 22:43

Does anyone know anything about the 'ex Mass' TS15 raced by Kevin Taylor in northern libre races in 1978?
I'm hoping that someone might have noted the plate.

znarfg · 8 Oct 2004, 11:44

I have seen the car yesterday. It's the former Guillermo Ortega car. It's a rolling chassis, without engine and gearbox but in good condition (private museum). The car is available. If someone are interested contact me by a private message.

Dan Rear · 21 Mar 2006, 14:09

A late '75 AS reports that our old mate Peter Wardle was hoping to be part of a 3 car TS15 team in 76 Atlantic. As well as his own car, he hoped to be joined by Steve Carvill in the 'ex-Hesketh' TS15. No mention of the 3rd one tho'.

allenbrown · 26 Mar 2006, 23:13

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chris Townsend

After 1973 there seem to be a lot of TS15s in Japan [any help appreciated]
They appear in the hands of
Matsuaki Sanada
Kikuo Kaira [this could be Sanada's car]
Masahiro Hasemi
Jiro Yoneyama [retained to 1977]
Kazuyoshi Hoshino

Just happen to have been looking at Japanese F2 data (don't ask!!) and I think there were only two TS15s in Japan.

Takashi Yorino appears in one TS15 late 1973 and this same car (same team name) appears at the start of 1974 for Mitsuaki Sanada. Then, at round 2, a second TS15 appears: one TS15 is now with Kojima Engineering (Hasemi and Hoshino in 1974) and the other with Jirou Yoneyama's team. The latter car is driven by Yoneyama (and Kikuo Kaira once) to the end of 1977. Meanwhile, the other TS15 appears to pass to the Yatsuka team and is driven by Tetsu Okada (and Kunimitsu Takahashi in 1975) through to the end of 1977.

As Kojima Engineering weren't your second-hand-car sort of a team, I'd assume one car went new to Kojima for 1974 and then to the Yatsuka team while Yorino's 1973 car went to Yoneyama.

I can't see a result for Yorino before the JAF GP on 11 November so it's possible this was one of the many missing 1973 works cars. However, I have no idea where else a TS15 could have been racing in the Far East in 1973.

Allen

JRTM · 24 Apr 2006, 10:05

Just in passing - I presume folks know that John Bladon owned the experimental chassis (Chassis Exp) . It only raced in the Temporada with Carlos Pace and then Andrea De A. John Surtees has just bought it back supposedly to restore for son Henry!

Cheers

John

**John Turner** · 8 May 2006, 22:14

Mark Griffith's TS15-07, Brands Hatch Superprix, 7 May, 2006:-

allenbrown · 16 Mar 2007, 22:39

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chris Townsend

TS15A [1974] All except chassis 5 were fitted with BMW M12 engine
These numbers are more suspect since they come from F1R not MN

01. Works for Fausto Morello
02: Works for Guillermo Ortega
03: Works for Tim Schenken. Advertised recently from France with a history post Surtees of Yves Courage [1977-78] then Germain Drouet in hillclimbs to 1989
04: Works: John Watson
05: BDA engine. Works: Jose Dolhem, then 1975 to Pechek for Hans Meier

The only mystery car so far after this is the one owned by Otto Stuppacher and run by Ewald Boisitz in 1975 - though this might be a mis-appelation of the Biechteler TS15.

Yves Courage's car first appears at Saint-Gouéno 24 Aug 1975 and is noted as ex-Schenken.

Allen

allenbrown · 4 Jan 2008, 17:05

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chris Townsend

TS15-06 Sold new to Peter Wardle for UK F.Atlantic. Retained to end 1975, then to Steve Carvill. Maybe the car used by Jim Ravenscroft in 1977.

TS15-07 Sold new to Bob Gerard for Robert Salisbury

I have just found a fly in the ointment. Ravenscroft turns up at Silverstone for a libre race in September 1976 in his "newly acquired Atlantic Surtees TS15" (AS 30 Sep 1976 p45). As Carvill and Wardle continue to race the #208 TS15-06 four more times that season, Ravenscroft can't have their car.

The only other TS15 used in UK Atlantic was Gerard's TS15-07, last seen at the end of 1973.

Allen