One for the older guys

[Crowestar]

Originally Posted by racer69

Channel 7, during their coverage of Round 1 of the 1987 ATCC at Calder, did a story on the impending start of the first WTCC, and one of the shots showed a picture panning through TWR's workshop's, which shows a brace of Commodore's (have to dig the tape out, but from memory's both VK's and VL's, possibly yellow).

The main question i ask is exactly what were TWR thinking when they decided to run Commodore's for 1987??? If news broke in late-1986 that they were going to run them in 1987, that is before Brock had his fallout with Holden, and therefore before the chance for TWR to build Holden's 'Special Vehicle's' came about.

The Commodore VK was arguably the fastest Group A car around at the end of 1986, and TWR had lost their works Austin Rover deal. Would they have pushed ahead with a privateer deal though with an Australian car in Europe, where, apart from Peter Brock's effort in 1986, Holen seemed to have little interest in racing the Commodore over there?

From what I've read since, The Brock/Holden Split began towards the end of 1986. Brock had been secretly testing the polariser for a couple of years before its release in a HDT car in 1986.

I also have read that when Brock was on his way back from Overseas in 1986 there was this guy who looked familar on the same plane. The guy ended up being Tom Walkinshaw heading to Australia for some meetings.

So did Holden dump Brock in late 1986 but never let him know till February 1987 and was finding a replacement behind his back????

[rdmdog]

Surely not!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[MHDT]

Brock said the polariser was a 'smokescreen' issue at the time; and it sounds like he was right.

The polariser story, combined with other rumours, (not surprisingly) made great press at the time.

We may well accept that Holden wanted TWR to run their factory motorsport operations in 1986; but why on earth they want TW to head motorsport operations in 2005 is beyond me.

[racer69]

The deals with TWR and previously with Brock was more to do with road cars than it was race cars.

If you believed Holden, they didn't have anything to do with the Mobil Holden Dealer Team, since 1979. The way Brock and Holden presented it to the world was that Holden supplied HDT Special Vehicle's with cars for Brock to hot up, the profits from that being used by Brock to fund the Mobil Holden Dealer Team.

During the Nissan-Mobil 500 series in New Zealand at the start of 1987 at Wellington, it was operations as usual for the Mobil-HDT. Brock and Moffat were still in #05, Harvey and Lowe were still in #3, and the cars still had Holden Dealer Team written on them.

2-3 weeks later on February 20, when Holden announced it was cutting it's support for HDT-Special Vehicles, and therefore the race team, Moffat and Harvey resigned (i think Lowe had already left for DJR by then), and the cars never raced with the words Holden Dealer Team on there again.

[Henry]

Originally Posted by MHDT

Brock said the polariser was a 'smokescreen' issue at the time; and it sounds like he was right.

The Polariser was just the symbol of the whole mess at the end, but it was quite indicative of how the rot had set in: the straw which broke the camel's back was the VL Director, with IRS which Holden would not grant ADR approval for, as HDT would not release to them a spec-car for testing and the like. Holden's story was that nothing was irreconcilable right up until Brock pulled the covers off the Director at his big black-tie function in Feb (IIRC) 1987...

[Crowestar]

Originally Posted by racer69

If you believed Holden, they didn't have anything to do with the Mobil Holden Dealer Team, since 1979. The way Brock and Holden presented it to the world was that Holden supplied HDT Special Vehicle's with cars for Brock to hot up, the profits from that being used by Brock to fund the Mobil Holden Dealer Team.

The now they quote that they have been in motorsport non stop since 1969.

[cavvy]

Originally Posted by Crowestar

The now they quote that they have been in motorsport non stop since 1969.

I saw Holden Dealer Team Monaros in the 68 London Sydney, all running the yet to be released 350s. Factory?

[Henry]

Back in the days... Holden were subject to a decree from GM that there was to be absolutely no factory involvement in motor racing. The 1968 Dealer Team Monaros for the London-Sydney WERE factory cars, produced at the behest of David Mackay, who can thus claim the title of "father" of Holden's works team. They were subject to this decree throughout the remainder of the sixties and the seventies until they announced that they were pulling out... when they didn't "officially" participate anyway!

However, Holden have benefited in the public's eye by their perceived involvement (and regardless of what Holden said, HDT WAS the works team thru the 70's... I have read that their budget was paid for out of a senior executive's cheque book IIRC); 1969 does make a nice origin considering that their Bathurst victory that year is a much more noteworthy historic footnote than mere participation in a rally in which Ford Australia figured much more successfully...

[cavvy]

Originally Posted by Henry

factory involvement in motor racing. The 1968 Dealer Team Monaros for the London-Sydney WERE factory cars, produced at the behest of David Mackay, who can thus claim the title of "father" of Holden's works team.

participation in a rally in which Ford Australia figured much more successfully...

The David MacKay (or is it McKay) HDT involvement is pre the Marathon.

Excuse my bias, but to me the difference in the Ford -Holden Marathon results were due to one H.Firth being on Fords payroll.

[Henry]

You're right, McKay it is.

H certainly did a good job of preparing the Fords, and figured strongly in the running right up until late in the piece... can you imagine how Ford may have figured into the early 1970's had they not cast the Grey Fox aside?

[Trev Campbell]

Originally Posted by Crowestar

From what I've read since, The Brock/Holden Split began towards the end of 1986. Brock had been secretly testing the polariser for a couple of years before its release in a HDT car in 1986.

How is this possible, because Brock said theat the machine that could test the effectivness of the polariser had not been invented yet. Ha Ha Ha.

[MHDT]

Originally Posted by Trev Campbell

How is this possible, because Brock said theat the machine that could test the effectivness of the polariser had not been invented yet. Ha Ha Ha.

I think you'll find that was a paraphase of what the CSIRO said.

[Trev Campbell]

It's still funny whoever said it !!!!!!!

[johnh875]

Originally Posted by Henry

H certainly did a good job of preparing the Fords, and figured strongly in the running right up until late in the piece... can you imagine how Ford may have figured into the early 1970's had they not cast the Grey Fox aside?

Did they cast him aside or did Holden poach him?

[Henry]

I thought he had been told he wasn't required any longer...