Drifting

[macdaddy]

When they boys bought Cosworth, they mentioned that it was their intention to break into the Tuner-market.

And then we had a thread about "Offseason Predictions" - in which I mentioned that I could foresee "Drifting" as being a support event at ChampCar events in 2005.

Well... If LongBeach is any example, I may have been right...

The Inaugural Long Beach Drifting Challenge, conducted in conjunction with Champ Car and Formula Drift, will be the first time Drifting has ever appeared (legally!) on city streets and the first Drifting demonstration to take place around the entire length of a race circuit.

“I believe this will be an exciting new addition to our race weekend that will not only be the first-ever full-course Drifting competition, but will also attract a whole new audience to our event,” said Jim Michaelian, President/CEO of the Grand Prix Association of Long Beach.

From ChampCar.

[StickShift]

Unholy.

[macdaddy]

I think that it will help attract new fans, and I don't think it's a bad idea.

My only concern would be the rubber that they're gonna leave on the racetrack. The article mentions that they run right up until the race starts on Sunday. It's safe to assume that drifter-cars and ChampCars don't use the same tire compounds.

[jjspierx]

Why is it unholy? I think any chance to have more people come to races is good. Maybe they will become Champcar fans. I've been to a D-1 drifting competition before(it was going on at Infineon raceway one of my race weekends) and it was pretty fun to watch.

Macdaddy - Yes VERY VERY different compounds, the drifters use ultra-hard compounds that offer very little grip. I seriously doubt it will have any effect whatsoever for the Champcars.

[macdaddy]

I'm glad you jumped in on my query, jj. I had you in mind as I poised the question. I was always of the impression that, the more dis-similar the compound, the more problems it would cause for the ChampCars. I gather that I had this backward? I hope it's not an issue, as it's obvious that the drifters will be laying down alot of rubber.

[Silk Cut Jaguar]

Shall we start taking bets on who will spin more, the drifters or the Champ Car rookies?

[macdaddy]

I think the grid is looking pretty darned good, myself.

[Silk Cut Jaguar]

In all fairness I think the grid is looking pretty respectable too. I just wanted an excuse to crack a bad joke

[codename_47]

If it brings extra young fans to mould into Champcar fans through the gate (spending their disposable income while they're there!) then it can't be that bad...can it....

[jjspierx]

Originally Posted by macdaddy

I'm glad you jumped in on my query, jj. I had you in mind as I poised the question. I was always of the impression that, the more dis-similar the compound, the more problems it would cause for the ChampCars. I gather that I had this backward? I hope it's not an issue, as it's obvious that the drifters will be laying down alot of rubber.

Alright, I'll add a little more input. Tire compounds are an extremely complex topic, that I admittedly know relatively little about. I am much more knowledgable about tire construction and suspension setup and theory. Tire compounds are by far the biggest unknown in racing. Even Bridgestone and Michelin in F1 have no way of producing identical tires that offer the same level of grip and that wear in a constant fashion. So much money goes into tire development and a majority of that money is spent researching the rubber compounds used. The level of complexity in tire compounds is absolutely mind-blowing to me and has gotten much more complex in that last few years with BS and Michelin in F1. They are so complex that they are designed to actually make a chemical bond with the surface that they are rolling over to increase the level of grip(this always happened in the past, but now they are able to control it).

Anyways back to the topic of drifting, and tire compounds and how they might play a role in Champcar. First off, the main problem caused by rubber on a track, isn't the rubber laid on the asphalt that is sticking to the asphalt, its the marbles or rubber buildup from the tires that isn't sticking to the ashpalt. In fact, having rubber that is laid down on a track actually will increase the level of grip provided to most any other tire rolling over it. The rubber on the track is sticky and provides more traction to another tire rolling over it...TO A POINT. The reason a tire grips a surface is because the rubber is pliable and is actually sinking into the little cracks and bumps of the surface as the car turns and tries to lose grip it is hard for the tire to start sliding when there are millions of tiny sized rubber particles actually sunk into the surface of the cement. This is why a track looses grip over its life because the surface is smoothed over by constant use(keep in mind the track may get cracks or bumps, but these aren't the same as the tiny(microscopic sometimes)bumps that allows a tire to have grip). So as I was saying before, rubber on a track usually increases grip, but it gets to a point where so much rubber can be laid down that it is already filling these tiny bumps and then a rolling tire will lose grip because it will just be sliding on top of rubber already laid down on the track. Especially on REALLY hot days this is noticeable, because the rubber on track becomes greasy, and your car will feel like its always sliding around corners and that the track has no grip.

Now, back to drifting. The tires used in drifting are a very very hard compound and therefore, rubber won't be coming off them in the form of marbles, like we see with Champcar or F1. So that won't be an issue. Also the harder compound will leave less rubber on the track than a softer compound and therefore I don't see there being an issue with too much rubber being on the track.

So back to your point Macdaddy, I could be wrong, but I don't think the difference in compounds is really much of an issue at all. Also keep in mind, the line that drifters use around the track will vary quite a bit from the Champcar line, they will use a lot REALLY early apexes, and REALLY late apexes as well, so that will also decrease the chance of their rubber buildup affecting the Champcars.

[nsxr]

jjspierx I like what you wrote except for two things. Drift tires are High GRIP.They need to be , to withstand being burned out and moving both sideways and fowards. Low grip tires would cause you to spin out just after the apex. Only those new to practicing drifting use low grip. Those tires arent race tires there street tires. Hey are you planning to go to D1 At Irwindale? sorry had to share my two cents. I'm glad I live in LB I get to see all of this live

[macdaddy]

I'd think that a soft (high-grip) compound would make the tires wear away extremely quickly, thereby making Drifting a more expensive discipline. And I didn't know that they made "really high grip" street tires.

[StickShift]

Drifting during a Champ Car weekend is like figure skating during the intermissions at a Hockey Game. Although they are both sports played on ice, they are two completely different breeds.

[jjspierx]

Originally Posted by nsxr

jjspierx I like what you wrote except for two things. Drift tires are High GRIP.They need to be , to withstand being burned out and moving both sideways and fowards. Low grip tires would cause you to spin out just after the apex. Only those new to practicing drifting use low grip. Those tires arent race tires there street tires. Hey are you planning to go to D1 At Irwindale? sorry had to share my two cents. I'm glad I live in LB I get to see all of this live

Hmmm...I was always led to believe Drifters use hard compound tires. I know street drifters do, but I guess I am wrong when it comes to the actual competitive drifters. I'm not sure why they use softer compound tires, but I'll tell you, I don't buy the "Low grip tires would cause you to spin out just after the apex." comment." I've done plenty of drifting around(on the streets and on the track", and I can tell you drifting on harder compound tires is much easier, and in no way have I ever felt that the harder compound made it easier for me to spin out after the apex of a corner. Drifting is much more about throttle control, vs steering input than most people realize, and its quite easy to pull out of a slide simply by modulating the gas pedal. Sorry to be disagreable NSXR, I do believe you that they use soft tires, I just don't think thats the right reason, but i could be wrong, again. It happens all the time.

[macdaddy]

Stickshift:
Drifting during a Champ Car weekend is like figure skating during the intermissions at a Hockey Game. Although they are both sports played on ice, they are two completely different breeds.

If the NHL was struggling for fans, and figure skating fans offered a new demographic, this would be a great way for the NHL to broaden their fanbase.