To be, or not not to be ... a pole position

[papismaximus]

What do you reckon, how many pole position Kimi got so far? 8 or 9?
And how about JPM then? 12 or 11? ... I think it's hardly all the same.

Last week, half of the F1 sites gave the pole position to Kimi (for being the fastest of the qualifying) the rest gave it to JPM for obviously starting the race from P1. Now statistically is it a pole for Kimi or not?

these sites for example reckons that it is NOT :

http://www.formulaone.free-online.co...oya/poles.html

http://www.formulaone.free-online.co...nen/poles.html

http://www.f1stats.de/en/drivers/poles.php?d=756

http://www.f1stats.de/en/drivers/poles.php?d=758


but this one for example recognizes it as a pole:

http://www.f1db.com/exec/section/dri...755/type/poles

http://www.f1db.com/exec/section/dri...754/type/poles

let alone that even sportingbet dot dot dot gave the pole for Kimi and trimed me for a fiver with that (or 20 euro actually if i think about the amount I havn't won.. but that's not the point now)

[papismaximus]

would be great to know what is FIA's position on this, and what are the rules concerning this...

the way i see it, it is NOT a pole, and no, not because he didn't start the race from pole but from the 5th row... the reason why I don't think it's a pole is that he got a brand new fresh engine in before the qual and that is againts the recent rules, you can do it, but it will cost you 10 places ... easy as that ... they don't call it a PENALTY for nothing. They penalize you because while others had -in some cases- over 800 km in their engines by then, you get a fresh engine to qualify with and that is unfair! It's not hard to see that since -according to Mario Theissen- the performance of an engine drops by 5-10 HP after doing a GP weekend with it.

What do you think? And what are the rules concerning this if you can quote them?

[Knowlesy]

There is no such thing as a pole position in F1 nowadays, they might as well not award them.

Nobody qualifies, merely does the first lap of the race on Saturday.

[papismaximus]

Thnx indeed for your philosophical thoughts there is no such thing as the 107% rule if that's what you mean ... however there are still things we call the QUALIFYING, the POLE POSITION (they do award it) and last but not the least DRIVER/TEAM STATISTICS ...

[Kicking-back]

The FIA awards the pole position to Montoya.

[Sodemo]

It is an interesting subject, one which I can see reasons for both drivers deserving the "pole" honour.

I think in my heart Kimi deserved the recognition of the pole despite the engine change, it was a mind blowing lap.

[Kicking-back]

Particularly given we now know he was virtually on full tanks.

[Dutton]

It is one of the problems of the system.

However, the system as it is what they work with and thus Kimi had an engine failure and thus was never in the fight for pole.

Juan got the pole because he did not have an engine failure.

I am not a fan of the situation at all, but it is the the only valid record under the existing system.

[papismaximus]

Originally Posted by Kicking-back

The FIA awards the pole position to Montoya.

Do they? Specify the source please! Cheers!

[Kicking-back]

http://www.formula1.com/insight/driver/9/5.html

12 poles for Juan Pablo

[Knowlesy]

Ten of which were in his first two years, under proper qualifying.

Ah, I yearn for such qualifying sessions. There's always hope for 2007 I guess, a chink of light in a blackened universe.

[Louis B.]

The point is indeed interesting for those who bet or are in f1 polls. Insofar as I am concerns, I was happy to note that I got the extra two points for Kimi's "pole" in my f1 poll (which is supposed to rely on the FIA rules on such issues). I, obviously, kept silent as to why I got those when Montoya is the one who started from the first slot.

I don't know the answer to your question but who was at the press conference as pole sitter after the qualifications? Being organised by the FIA, I would gather that whoever was sitting in the center was officially the pole holder (eventhough this might not be a valid indiciation considering that Kimi was on the first step of the podium and at the press conference after the Brazilian GP of 2003 eventhough those belonged to Fisico).

[Adam43]

Pole position, noun, the most favorable position at the start of a race.

While Kimi's lap was better and very impressive eleventh is not the most favourable position to start a race. Montoya had the pole position. Raikkonen was quickest in qualifying. Simple.

[Louis B.]

Fine, but statisticly or "bettingly" speaking, what is the rule? The driver who stalls or gets problem taking off on the warming lap such that he has to start at the back of the grid does not lose his "pole position" in the official stats. There must be some rationale behind the rule.

[Kicking-back]

10 Tenths F1 results prediction competition, which some of you may be familiar with, gave Montoya pole.


Louis - it's the person who is on pole on the official published starting grid that counts.