Pros & Cons of All-up FF Weight Minimum Please???

[dikko]

I think it was Eddie Moore who was leading a campaign for the implementation of an all-up (driver + car) weight MINIMUM for Formula Fords. Can anyone give me a brief overview of the reasons against this form of trying to make the formula more even? I guess it's right in principle but difficult to rule - is this correct or are there more subtle (or even obvious!) reasons to think about?

[itsonlyme]

diz tried it a few years ago when he was organising formula e.

i take it that the 'fatter/heavier' drivers are in favour of this new rule, but what happens if a driver is 20+ stone (which happened in formula e days, and he still won races with the regs as they are now) does the new car + driver weight limit have to suit him or is it just to suit the 'slightly' overweight drivers who think 2kg's saved on weight will gain them 3 seconds per lap?
i agree, in general it would even things out a bit but you cannot accomodate everybody.

[heel'n'toe-no]

I disagree a little, as I would say that this does accomodate all. Everyone can add weight to their car if they're under weight. What this would do is even the playing field and slow down the smaller built drivers (normally youngsters) that are most certainly getting an advantage as the regs stand.

It would stop a lot of the talk of young "superstars in the making" coming in to the formula weighing under 8 stone and looking quick. Move them out of FF1600 and some of these young "chargers" would get a rude awakening when they try to repeat their speed and success in a championship that does take car + driver weight in to consideration. At such an impressionable age it wouldn't take long for disillutionment to set in and the young drivers male or female to find other ways of getting their fun. ....you know what I'm getting at, they're teenagers afterall.

Of course, I'm definately up for this Car + Driver weight thingy because I'm 13.5 stone and can do with all the help I can get in that department.

Even if the regs changed, however, the lighter drivers would still have a slight advantage as they can position the weight very low down in the car and where ever they want to balance the car out better. Me.....I have to carry my weight around my belly as usual.

[dikko]

To the Everton er, non-supporter (and me a Breck Road scally), I suppose it could have been that a 20 stone winner either had a very, very, light car or he had so much talent he should have been World Champion and maybe should have been given the chance of competing against the lightweights on an equal basis. 20 Stone is, in fact a little bit above an average figure that could be in question...
It's just that I wonder that the future of Formula Ford racing could be jeopordized if the rules stay as they are. Especially so when it seems the new generation of bigger and the main point for FF racing, heavier, youngsters are being accommodated by manufacturers like Caterham (& co) and are addressing this by actually making their cars bigger to survive in the market place . Minis ain't minis too.
How many young karters being nurtured (and well nourished) into the next stage up of racing find that they are no longer competitive and give up because they've grown into what is now a normal 12-15 stone adult and the rules suit a light driver?
I just think we should consider these things now before we need to panic.
One of those things are an all-up weight minimum that is fair....but what is fair?
Without encouraging obesity (heel-n-toe, no reflection on you) what addition of weight should be considered if rules went down this path? 14 stone?

[JNWRF01]

I always thought the FF Zetec rules - which allows c.80kgs for the driver - to be the fairest. c500kgs for both car and driver would be pretty fair I would have thought for FF1600?

[Alan Raine]

Originally Posted by itsonlyme

diz tried it a few years ago when he was organising formula e.

i take it that the 'fatter/heavier' drivers are in favour of this new rule, but what happens if a driver is 20+ stone (which happened in formula e days, and he still won races with the regs as they are now) does the new car + driver weight limit have to suit him or is it just to suit the 'slightly' overweight drivers who think 2kg's saved on weight will gain them 3 seconds per lap?
i agree, in general it would even things out a bit but you cannot accomodate everybody.

We had to add ballast to our car when we did Formula E and I ain't small ( I can't remember whether it was because of the Formula E regs or if we were right on the FF1600 weight limit). It didn't make an awful lot of difference as the only way I was going to go faster was to find some more talent!

I think I know who itsonlyme is reffering to and he had the ability required. If you are good enough it doesn't really matter what size you are although being smaller probably helps. (Dave Coyne, John Booth for example).

[Triple J Motorsport]

Originally Posted by JNWRF01

I always thought the FF Zetec rules - which allows c.80kgs for the driver - to be the fairest. c500kgs for both car and driver would be pretty fair I would have thought for FF1600?

From memory the FFZetec rules were 75KG but this has been raised to 80KG this year for Duratecs. Got to be the right way thing to do if you want to attract more "gentlemen / Clubracers" to FF1600.

[MarkG]

I assume, that if weight is critical in cars with heaps of power, ie, F1, then surely extra weight in cars with low power, such as FF1600, is even more critical?? It must surely be more difficult for a 13-stone driver to achieve the same lap times as a 9-stone driver in the same car???

[JustinDawkins]

it makes sense - cue light drivers opposed (or fathers of light drivers)

[Alan Raine]

The guy who owned my original PRS before me was very short (below 5ft) and had to have special pedal extensions made. I couldn't get in the car until I moved the pedals back about 6 to 9 inches.

Being short proved very useful as he flipped at Silverstone and broke the roll hoop off. Ok he ended up in hospital for a week but he got away with it because he was very small.

He later drove the works Pacer and was one of the few people who could make them go quickly, after being made to run within the rules (they were caught cheating and were never the same again). He always reckoned that being small and light helped. Mind you he did seem to crash a lot!

[heel'n'toe-no]

Originally Posted by JustinDawkins

it makes sense - cue light drivers opposed (or fathers of light drivers)

I've been waiting for comments from the "slight of build" but as yet - nothing is coming.......hmmmm..........perhaps this might be a good time to ask the BRSCC if they would entertain the idea of the 500kg minimum as there doesn't appear to be much opposition.

Diz - What dya think?? Will Kevin go for it and give fatties like me at least a half chance

[heel'n'toe-no]

Plus I need all the incentives I can get my hands on to diet down to 80Kg

[Ian Sowman]

There was a vote on it a couple of years ago and it didn't get passed.

[heel'n'toe-no]

Who was able to vote Ian and what was the oppositions reasoning?

[Redracer77]

It would be interesting to see what a difference it would make in a test day with the lighter drivers doing a session as normal and then adding some ballast. I personally think there are more importantant things to change before this, even though I am one of the heavier drivers. The quick drivers will always be quick. Malcolm Barfoot and Justin Dawkins proved that the larger driver can mix it at the front.