Lotus 41 - 10-Tenths Motorsport Forum

Chris Townsend · 21 Jul 2003, 20:51

Anyone care to have a go at Lotus 41's? You'll be doing mankind a favour!

KDW · 22 Jul 2003, 07:46

Chris,
It was between a Lotus 41 and the 35 as to which car to buy!
Now I have had to remove the engine and gearbox to enable me to reach the starter motor, one can see why the F3 continental circus went for space frame cars !
I have also borrowed a load of 41 pics from Ted Walker. Lovely car, and some one needs to sort out the detail.

I must express an interest here. As part of my enthusisam I publish a bi monthly mag, "Lotus Single Seaters", which I hope will go someway to offsetting the cost of my racing !

Kevin

Bryan Miller · 22 Jul 2003, 08:08

Chris.
I notice you have been buried in takers for your Lotus 41's.
The problem with any of these cars is that they contain a goodly percentage of F3's , and ch.no. for them are seldom reported.

Ken Smith in N.Z. had one in period which according to Vercoe was the Charles Lucas Championship winning car of 1967.
We have one here ex. S.E.Asia , but am unable to advise previous owners at the moment , it has been here since circa 1970 , Frame no is 41-7., which may or may not be ch.no. as well.
Steve Holland ran one at Macau in 1967.
A. Laurel also in 1967. This was the car he died in in a horrific accident. His full name was Arsenio , with the nickname of Dodgie, terrible photo in Colour and noise.

On the for sale's at this moment are 41C-FL-58 , race-cars .com
Len Selby's site has 41-FL-29 and 41C-FL-38

Bryan.

KDW · 22 Jul 2003, 08:24

Brian,
the 41 with TC in France FL29, was fitted with 1500 ATS F1 motor at one time the owner told me (L Sufryn)
Kevin

Chris Townsend · 23 Jul 2003, 16:51

Lotus 41s:
The earliest known chassis no. that I have is 41-F3-6 advertised by Malcolm Payne at the end of 66 as 'two races only' [which were at the start of the season]
F3-8-E is advertised by a "Jennings" in Autosport in 1967. Any ideas who he?
Most of the other early season cars were F3s, going to Derek Bell, Tony Dean and Melvyn Long.

David McKinney · 23 Jul 2003, 19:07

I can beat you by one, Chris
•41 F3 5 was the Frank Manning car raced by Chris Moore in 1966 F3. It would be logical to guess that the earlier numbers would have included the RHTL cars.
•I have ‘06’ as the 1966 Gunnar Carlsson car, which remained in Scandinavia to 1970, and was offered at auction in 1998. I suppose Malcolm Wayne could have advertised it at some stage, but it seems more likely that ‘06’ is not the same as 41 F3 6
•41 F3 8 was Mo Nunn’s 1966 mount. Jennings might have been hillclimber Bob Jennings, an associate of Mike MacDowel
•41 F3 12 was Derek Bell’s (at least at the beginning of 1966)
•Kenny Smith’s ex-Lucas car was 41 F3 14 and, last I heard (1998), was still in NZ
•41 F3 15 was the John Willment car 1966, driven by Tony Dean
•41 F3 19 was run by Motor Racing Stables for Tetsu Ikuzawa 1966
•There seem to have been three Charles Lucas cars in 1966, raced by Lucas, Courage and Pike. Lucas also raced his in 1967, while the ex-Courage car went to Steve Holland in Hong Kong
•Of the other Asian cars, Laurel had his late 1966. Other drivers included William Gray of Singapore in 1968, John Macdonald of Hong Kong the same year, Ricky Ohkubo of Japan in 1969, Tokomitsu Urushibara with Honda engine 1970 (possibly not a 41), A N Other in the 1971 Japanese GP (with Waggott engine) and T Tsutsumi at Macau in 1972
•Not a lot of people know this, but there was a second 41 in NZ. It arrived with a very shady history and under the name of Teal rather than Lotus, but I’m pretty sure it never raced beifore being converted to FF (and entered as a Lotus). I haven’t heard of this car since 1975, when it was still racing.
•Apparently 61 units (including 41Bs) were sold

41Bs
(F2/FB version)
•41B F 1 was the Team Lotus car driven by Jackie Oliver in late 1966 F3
•41B-FL-30 was the Lotus Components car which Oliver raced in F2 in 1967. Later a UK hillclimb car (Geoff Rollason, David Blankstone, Martyn Grifiths etc) into the 1970s.
•41B-FL-46 raced by Manfred Behnke mid 1968 (or do I mean 1988?)

41Cs
(1967 F3)
•FL-29 - the Midland RT car, driven mainly by Walter Habbegger 1967/68 (with twincam engine)
•Gus Hutchison raced one successfully in US FB 1967
•Geoff Rollason in UK hillclimbs once or twice in 1967

41X
•one-off F3 car built 1967

allenbrown · 23 Jul 2003, 21:01

There's not much I can offer here except to say that Gus's team ran three "41C"s (were they really 41Bs?) in 1967. One of them is still active in vintage racing but I don't think anyone knows exactly which one it was.

Allen

Chris Townsend · 24 Jul 2003, 08:31

David

That's pretty amazing record keeping! Allen can now put Kenny Smith's 41 properly in place in the Tasman records. This was the car in which Lucas won the 67 British GP support race, but from the race reports I always thought that it was a 1967 built car.

The Mo Nunn car is interesting too. He had a 41 for a long time and eventually sold it to Sid Watkins [I don't know if that's the Dr Sid Watkins] in 1969. David's chassis confirmation suggests that either he had two cars, with a new one in 1967, or perhaps Bob Jennings [who lived in the same part of the W.Midlands as Nunn] really owned the car and in the end it didn't sell. I think the first 41 on the hills was Geoff Rollason's FL-30, so Jennings didn't use it himself.

Given those chassis numbers here is some 1967 ownership based on contemporary updates of ownership and race reports:
F3-6 Manning for John Cardwell and John Kendall
F-12 [assuming it's the only car Bell uses] Felday for Mac Daghorn, then sold to Jo Tacquet, retained by Tacquet in 1968

Chris

KDW · 24 Jul 2003, 09:21

I always understood that a number of 41's were sold by the factory well after they were new. Into the late 60's early 70's.

I chased up several 41's before buying the 35, so I'll check out owners/chassis numbers, plus the Ferret Fhotos captions, and post that tomorrow.
Kevin
PS I think there is a Registrar for the 41 in USA.

David McKinney · 24 Jul 2003, 18:46

Quote:

Originally posted by Chris Townsend
Allen can now put Kenny Smith's 41 properly in place in the Tasman records. This was the car in which Lucas won the 67 British GP support race, but from the race reports I always thought that it was a 1967 built car.

You might well be right. My original info would have come from KS at the time - or shortly after - he bought the car, and it's quite possible that he or I made an assumption regarding its 1966 use

DaveM · 24 Jul 2003, 21:11

Two 41's in this pic of the start of heat 2 at Oulton in October 67. John Miles leads in the Lotus Components car, which I captioned as a 41C, and the 6th placed 41 is driven by John Hine. The Miles car sported a periscope type air intake in the final.

DaveM · 24 Jul 2003, 21:19

This is Mo Nunn in his 41 at Mallory in either late 67 or early 68.

Freddy Kottulinsky also drove a 41.

DaveM · 24 Jul 2003, 21:22

Here is John Miles again, this time winning the F3 race at the Silverstone International Trophy meeting in April 68 in the 41X.

Chris Townsend · 24 Jul 2003, 22:23

Re the Mo Nunn car [F3-8]. Autosport race report for the Lombank Tr race at Mallory in March '68, says it's still his 1966 car, so it may well be that the Jennings ad was the original owner trying to sell it. after Nunn had used it for a season or so.

Do we know how long Bill Robson had the ex-Sellers Racing car?

Chris

KDW · 25 Jul 2003, 08:23

I was told by Stuart Rolt that there was more than one 41X was built.
One of my subscribers living in Italy has a 41X, and found it fitted with wings and Alfa engine. The car is due to be restored. The car starred in a Italian film along the lines of Grand Prix, but starring the motorcylist Agostini. I have tried to obtain a copy of the film and posted a request on the motogp board, but no response.
Kevin