Chevron B48

[driftwood]

i will ask him

[Chris Townsend]

Ago did have a B40
He spent the winter of 77/78 flogging round in one. According to MN it was the ex Ardmore car [chassis 01 then] and they even reproduce a picture of it in Voxson livery.

The confusion of the B47/49 in the Brown car is interesting.
The Devaney B47 was chassis 08. The number and description as his car is given in a Chevron ad A/S 15.11.79 p. 59. I understand this to be the Griffiths car of recent years in sprinting and h/c.
49-79-02 is an interesting proposition because the number does not appear on the Chevron build record I was sent by Tim Colman. Only 1 and 4 do.
1 Andy Jeffrey, 4 Graeme Lawrence. However, we know 5 exists and did so in period. [Tommy Phillips]
After Jeffrey stuffs 01 rather badly he appears in what AS notes is a new car on loan from Chevron, and then a race later in what AS calls his original car repaired.
01 can be traced to Stu Lawson in early 1980 and I'm told by Tim Colman that this was Peter Oxley's car in 1985 [so not the Brown/Knapman car]
Chevron still have an old B49 that they wheel out for Masanori Sekiva in 1982 until the B56 is ready. Can't be 01, 04 [in NZ], 05 [in Seattle] so perhaps there really was a 49-79-02 which got stuck into the Devaney car.
Brown doesn't appear until Sept 82 [AS 16.9.82 p. 30] which is after Sekiva has finished with a B49.

£10 an hour? I'd want a sight more than that! This is for fun and relaxation. And doing Ralt RT4 histories really is like a giant form of Suduko.

Chris

[driftwood]

Knapman told me he had f3 B47 car dressed up as f2 car on the hills

£10 per hour was a figure of speech- anyway what overheads do u have? office space secretary electricty phnoe line rental etc??

if yr doing it for "fun" and some one wants to pay u a fee of say £10-15 per hour i would have thought that as a bonus
if some paid me £30 to drive their race car i would think i was in heaven instead it costs me £1000 to do a race!!
sominks wrong somewhere!

[allenbrown]

Chris

Is it a build record you have or a sales record? Is it possible B49-79-02 was built but not sold?

And isn't it a remarkable coincidence that Devaney drove both B47-79-08 and B48-79-08. They're not the same car are they? I can't see how they can be but with so many dodgy things going on at Chevron 1979/80 I had to ask.

Drifty - my overheads are a wife and two children!

Allen

[driftwood]

would it be fair to say the b47 8 9 monocoques are the same so perhaps the engine gbox corners could be swapped around swiftely hence the same chassis tag on a tub enetered in different races
i cant see the same driver running the same serial no car from 2 different models what are the odds of that 1 in 20 perhaps

allen yr overeads can be reduced in 1 swoop
as a well known race driver told my father 20 years ago he got rid of his mortgage and wife in the same day -its called a divorce!!
The children can sweep the chimney`s for their keep

[allenbrown]

Originally Posted by Chris Townsend

Ago did have a B40
He spent the winter of 77/78 flogging round in one. According to MN it was the ex Ardmore car [chassis 01 then] and they even reproduce a picture of it in Voxson livery.

Where was he racing this Chris? Any idea what became of it after he got his B42? Barton by any chance?

For the record, Ken Brill's ex-Ago car is given by Autosport as B42-14 and unless Marcus took that number out of an old notebook for his report and was actually looking at a plate-less B40 (unlikely), that's a solid identification. So the Fisher car was almost certainly B42-14, not B40-01.

And yes, I know this post is now on the wrong thread.

Allen

[Dan Rear]

Allen, don't think Ago ever raced the B40, testing only I suspect. Barton had his 'mystery F2 car' in early 77, before Ago got the car, so can't be the same one.

My tech knowledge is zero, but surely an F3 tub couldn't have been turned into an F2 car ??

[allenbrown]

Originally Posted by Dan Rear

Did Andy B use a B40 for a time in 1978, and destroy it too, or am I dreaming things?? If he did, was it the one Harper got later, ie -08 ?

Originally Posted by allenbrown

Andy bought a B40 in time for the 1978 Bank Holiday Monday Croft meeting (see Autosport 8 June 1978 p51 and p57) but put it over the bank in practice. He never raced it again so presumably it was too bent even for Barton.

Dan, are you thinking of the mystery B35 he wrecked in 1977? I only knew about the B40 he had in 1978 because of you!

If B40-77-01 went to Ago after Ardmore for 77/78 testing, it's still in play as a possibility for Barton's short-lived car in the spring of 1978.

Allen

[driftwood]

go look at any march f1 f5000 f2 f3 71-74 cars all same s=tubs but have different thickness bulkheads
ralts rt1 f2 f3 atalantic /super vee
rt3/5 tubs the same
would not surprise me if chevron f2 f3 was same tub

[Chris Townsend]

I'd agree with Drifty about the F3 and Atlantic tubs. Not so sure about F2 because of the extra tank capacity.
B48 prototype has a new tub I'd guess, because this was the tryout for the first ground effect car, so I presume they'd do something different to the B42, I've seen a photo of it with Patrese in, and it has B48 bodywork but probably still has 42 suspension. They then put a new tub in it in April/May.

I don't think that this would have been the F3 tub at that stage because the F3 drivers were still attempting to make the B47 work. 47-08 seems to survive as an entity because David Warner rents it for the British GP and Martin McCarthy for the TV race at Thruxton at season end.

Regarding the B49. I think 49-02 was built, intended for Opert along with 03 , and both were cancelled. 02 stays at Chevron until 1982. 03 don't know. Gaps in the Chevron number record sometimes indicate replacements for existing car, others are back-door jobs.

Unfortunately you do get drivers with the same chassis no on different models - DICK B****Y BARKER for one; Carl Liebich has Lola T460-HU18 from new and then goes and buys T360-HU18 second hand afterwards.

Ago did only test the B40 and did have a real B42. The B40 ref is MN 2.3.78 p.14

[Dan Rear]

dw, fair enough, I bow to your far superior knowledge here (but can't you brush up your typing skills!!!). Allen, sorry I forgot the Barton B40 from early 78.

Chris, why do we know there were at least 5 B49s? 1, perhaps 2 for Jeffrey, one for Opert/Tolama, one for Lawrence, what is the Tommy Phillips one? And what about the Irish B53, that came out in 1981, can't recall the driver now, was this based on a spare B49 tub ???

This is getting good again, my hourly rate's going up ...!!

[Chris Townsend]

B49s
What Tim told me was in the record was
01 Jeffrey [independently observed early season]
04 Lawrence [confirmed by Dave McKinney]
05 Phillips [confirmed in the recent ad of this car]

Why the gap?
We know that there is an extra car in there as Jeffrey's replacement.
Opert never took a B49 in the end - ran B45 and B39 plus March in 1979.
Think we need to look to NW sprinters and h/c for the answer... I seem to recall a B49 for sale in Lancs in 1980/1 that couldn't be placed without an extra car existing, since 01, 04 and 05 were accounted for and one other car was still at works.

Chris

PS This is now keeping me from writing - only 180 words so far today and my target is 1000

[Dan Rear]

As this is a, great, revival of an old thread, did we ever discuss B47s much? I'm intrigued by Devaney in -08 (B47 that is, not B48). Given that he was announced as the first McMahon Team driver that year, and pictured in a car quite early in 79, I assumed that car would have been -01, or -02, NOT -08. I wonder if the latter is the revised car he drove from about May onwards, with the wide nose, and other mods. That would seem logical, so I wonder what the others were numbered.

IIRC there were a total of 3 McMahon cars, or 4 with the -08 I surmised above, + the Roe car, ie 5. From memory we were told KWS had 3 cars too, also John Lewis had one later that year. So perhaps 9, the bulk UK based, and which could well have morphed into 'B49' Atlantic engined climbers later on.

[Chris Townsend]

B47s
McMahon 3 cars for Jordan, Johansson and Devaney [and maybe 03 originally for Devaney]
Michael Roe
Three KWS
One Trivatello in Italy for Gianluca Messini (but by 1982 there are two of these popular beasts running in Italy!)

The John Lewis car was quite possibly built outside the works run as Lewis often finished his cars after hours at the Chevron factory where he worked.
His B34 is a problem for me...

[allenbrown]

Get anywhere near 1000 yesterday?