Yellow Flags

[archaic gold]

Originally Posted by Dave Brand

I suspect that may be the reason! It also seems to me that bike riders are better at slowing down for yellows......

Yes, I think that bikers have a better vision than car racers, in that, I accept I have never RACED a SS, but I have been on Track in quite wet, Drizzly, (DEC), conditions, and I was lucky to see the car in front through spray, hence rear-guard lights!!
I am compaigning where the Flag Marshal sits in a box at the side of the track and commands the corner with a series of lights set close to the track.
These can be brighter than Flags!!!, safer near a Track, (no human body in the firing line!), and less excuse for missing signals. HOWEVER, to get the MSA to accept this, and the Circuit Owners to fund it; is a different matter.
But, with the falling of volunteer Marshals, this may be the only road to go down!!

[GordonG]

There are yellow and red lights on the back straight at Silverstone club IIRC. Almost impossible to see in bright sunlight - several times I've driven down the straight wondering are they or arent they on? I'm sure there must be design/technology to make this work, but it's not trivial.

G

[Notso Swift]

For Me, Lights don't show the urgency of a situation the way a waved flag does, but it would be a good back up and it is easier to have closer to the racing line/natural vision line.
If that were to draw attention to the flaggie I wouldn't be a bad thing... mind you as a driver I don't understand how people can miss more than one flag in a row anyway

[Peter Mallett]

There are lights at Eau Rouge at spa and you do see them. There are similar lights at Copse but I don't think they use them during a race (unlike spa) just for test days when marshals aren't so numerous.

[Eddy V]

Peter, the driver missing those lights at Eau Rouge must be more than blind.

And still some claim they didn't see them.

[Peter Mallett]

Eddy.

In truth your eyes are so wide open when you enter Eau Rouge you see just about everything!

For the uninitiated, you keep your eyes open that wide because you're never going to see an accident as big as the one you think you're heading for.

[alf]

I think lights are the way forward, no question, perhaps they may need to be angled or shielded to prevent influence from the sun but as you drive under a gantry with lights on it you are going to see the lights more often than not ( we are in England, well some of us are!!!) in poor weather what are you going to see clearest? a flag waved at the side of the track, sometimes many yards away or lights shining above you? also I was at cadwell recently and i watched a very dirt waved yellow flag disssapear as if camoflaged by the foliage around it at the top of the mountain. a driver had a spin the flags came out but the cars following couldn't possibly, and didn't see them, and 2 cars were very badly damaged!!!

had there been lights there there would be no excuse.

also while racing at donington recently i watched a car in front, overshoot the chicane, alowing me to pass. there were waved yellows at redgate, on the craners and at macleans. Even though this driver had to stop, turn rejoin the track and build up speed, he still caught me up by macleans ( then drove into me!!!!) simply because I had observed the yellows and slowed down ( and always will), he clearly couldn't have done, yet nothing was done about it.


grrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr

[Woolley]

...until water gets into the electrics, the fuse blows, the bulb gives way, a car takes the electrics out...

Flags, especially when clean, work every time and allow the marshals to communicate. Lights are on, off or flashing, or maybe not if as descrived above.

[midgetman]

>>>>>...until water gets into the electrics, the fuse blows, the bulb gives way, a car takes the electrics out...

All of which could happen to the traffic lights on the way to work but no, damned things keep holding me up 24/7, 365 days per year. Grrrrrrrr.

Serious point, this is 2006 not 1906 and things tend to work better than they used to so that's not really a worry. There may be other good reasons not to use lights, but reliability in a bespoke, properly installed system isn't one of them.

[Eddy V]

Originally Posted by Peter Mallett

In truth your eyes are so wide open when you enter Eau Rouge you see just about everything!

Not that sure Peter, I used to keep 'em firmly shut with the old Eau Rouge.


The stone walls were very close to the track in the old days.

[alf]

Originally Posted by Woolley

...until water gets into the electrics, the fuse blows, the bulb gives way, a car takes the electrics out...

Flags, especially when clean, work every time and allow the marshals to communicate. Lights are on, off or flashing, or maybe not if as descrived above.

flags were the best we could do years ago.
in the high tech world of motor sports a set of fully functioning waterproof lights are not the most difficult things to create, and as I said hung under a gantry like we have already at many tracks world wide already, it would be pretty difficult for a car to hit them ( although Peter Dumbreck may have a pop in that mercedes of his!!!!!)

like the other chap says quite rightly above, traffic lights on the road work virtualy faultlessly, so its not a great argument

[DougK]

Firstly , I agree with Stephen on this - The "professional drivers" give a bad impression to everyone else. I find it very bad that F1 has a different set of rules aimed at them and so others assume they can do the same. IMO they should not be allowed to put 4 wheels over white lines, proceed at what appears normal speed (or faster!) through yeallow flags and basically get up to all sorts of things that are not allowed in other racing events. They need to put a stop to this really and insist certainly under yellow flags that they slow down considerably (i would suggest 2/3rds to 1/2 normal racing speed minimum). Similarly at club / national events the CoC should impress what they deem as sufficient slowing.

Secondly the siting of marshals posts is often bizzare. Flag posts need to be in the drivers line of view as they reach a corner. Though this may not be the "safest" place, it certainly is the safest place for drivers to see them. The current trend of moving marshals and posts further and further back from the circuit makes it hardy for drivers to spot the flags. Lights I don't think will work - they will fail (i.e. break)as circuits cannot seem to keep commuication lines in order let alone more electronic devices. I suspect lights will be left on in error on many occasssion too. A flag can and is removed instantly as its an automatic reaction.

[dtype38]

There are a whole load of great big gantry mounted light boards along the sides of British motorways that seem to be rarely used. Even when they are, the messages appear to be taken out of Chistmas crackers and fortune cookies. Perhaps if MSV put in a bid, the govenment would be happy to get rid of that particular set of white elephants and we could have some really great signage around our race tracks. A great big board over the finish line at Cadwell saying "Car 10, you are on fire! pull off the track at the nearest convenient marshall post!" or "LAST LAP" in one foot tall illuminated letters would be better than the little boards they use at the mo. Mind you, I wouldn't be impressed if they put one over the start line at Brands that said "Turn Right"

[GordonG]

this is all about to get silly, I can tell.

But, a bunch of guys in Orange every few hundred yards down the motorway with a selection of brightly coloured flags. That would work well.

The white would get used a lot on weekends for the middle lane morons. Waved blues for the guys hogging the overtaking lane. Black and white for tailgaters.

See, it all works.

G

[dtype38]

Originally Posted by GordonG

But, a bunch of guys in Orange every few hundred yards down the motorway with a selection of brightly coloured flags. That would work well.

That's a terrible idea.... they'd all get run over! At least let them stand on the grass verge