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Old 13 Aug 2006, 15:16 (Ref:1681287)   #1
morrisnutter
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Electric Oil Pump

Does anyone know where I can source an elctric oil pump? The only oes I can find on the web seem to be just for an oil cooler. I'd like to replace the mechanical pump totally (and get rid of some parasitic losses too )

It doesn't matter what engine they're meant for- I can modify to fit!

Any pointers gratefully accepted!
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Old 13 Aug 2006, 22:19 (Ref:1681626)   #2
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Quote:
Originally Posted by morrisnutter
Does anyone know where I can source an elctric oil pump? The only oes I can find on the web seem to be just for an oil cooler. I'd like to replace the mechanical pump totally (and get rid of some parasitic losses too )

It doesn't matter what engine they're meant for- I can modify to fit!

Any pointers gratefully accepted!
Check your local boat yards, or over the road truck maintenance or construction equipment shop. There are lots of hydraulic pumps available. The only question would be if they could pump automotive motor oil without all the special additives in hydraulic fluid. Perhaps a diesel injection pump would work if you could bring down the pressure.

Ask the Audi Works if they have a spare from one of the A10s.

Last edited by thebear; 13 Aug 2006 at 22:28.
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Old 15 Aug 2006, 15:49 (Ref:1683343)   #3
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Surely engine speed and pump speed are related, I cannot see this working at all, never heard of it before but what do I know!
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Old 15 Aug 2006, 16:25 (Ref:1683364)   #4
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Dry sump pump + e.motor to operate?
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Old 15 Aug 2006, 16:43 (Ref:1683378)   #5
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Al Weyman
Surely engine speed and pump speed are related, I cannot see this working at all, never heard of it before but what do I know!
Be nice to be able to get oil pressure before cranking the engine, but perhaps merely a luxury.
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Old 15 Aug 2006, 17:09 (Ref:1683394)   #6
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Not at all I have that on my IROC (the Black un) its a wet sump engine with an electric Accusump plumbed in, as soon as you turn onthe ignition the valve in the Accusump opens and delivers oil around the engine to about 40psi (or what ever it was when you shut the engine off) prior to start up. Its quite odd to see the oil pressure rise before the engine is even fired up. Available from the good folk at Think Automotive or Real Steel, both near London.

Last edited by Al Weyman; 15 Aug 2006 at 17:12.
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Old 15 Aug 2006, 18:58 (Ref:1683509)   #7
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the accusumps are great. Really good investment.
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Old 15 Aug 2006, 19:06 (Ref:1683515)   #8
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I have n electric oilpump from lubrication Recearch in my Hemipanter. The pump is named as a "preluber" device. Also used in turbo aplication to circulate oil after the engine is shut down to cool turbo bearings, which is don using a special ecu device. Motor is a 12v 3900 rpm motor, 60 Ah caability fused to 30 Ah.

The unit is perfect for prelubing the engine before fire up or filling the whole cooling system after an oil change. Also for draining the system from oil.

Howeveer, it should be possible to manage a few mile of driving ack home in case of an emergency using only the preluber pump. When looking att the preeluber pump one strikes of the fact that an totally electrified oilpump system should need a very bulky pump using a motor comparable to a starter motor at least. This in turn put some demand on the alternator to say the least.

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Old 15 Aug 2006, 19:54 (Ref:1683549)   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Al Weyman
Surely engine speed and pump speed are related, I cannot see this working at all, never heard of it before but what do I know!
Very true, they are related! However, EVERY pump is fitted with a pressure relief valve that comes into action when engine (thus pump) revs get too high, causing too much pressure. Also, consider the amount of times that with a warm engine wou wished that the tickover oil pressure was higher- not a problem with an electric pump! A happy pressure can be found which the pump will constantly run at.

I'll check out the suppliers suggested!

The main reason is to get sufficient oil pressure at the bearings before startup to avoid wear.

As an aside, I know that the owners of some Cosworth (DFV?) GP cars have fitted these types of pumps to their engines. Due to the fact that they get 'timed out' like aircraft engines when they are run, to warm the engine most of the way, they fit a heating element of some kind and switch on the electric pump. That way the engine heat soaks to a certain temperature without causing undue run-time! Nice
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Old 15 Aug 2006, 22:33 (Ref:1683700)   #10
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Those F1 systems are external to the car, though, and they use them for coolant as well.
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Old 16 Aug 2006, 11:19 (Ref:1684064)   #11
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If anyone finds a 7 bar plus electric oil pump which will flow 40 litres per thousand rpm, please post the details here.
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Old 17 Aug 2006, 14:33 (Ref:1685089)   #12
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I have ofren wondered about electric pumps for this and that, But the thing that allways crossed my mind is the bit, You Dont get somthing for nothing, surly if it takes 5hp to drive the oil pump, and you remove the pump from the engine and put an electric motor on the pump, does it still not take 5hp to drive the pump?? so obviously the power has to come from somewhere, and obviously the alternator has to provide the power, with the extra loading on the alternator does this still take 5hp to provide the exta power to drive the pump??,
I would have thought the power savings in pump parasitic losses would be better made in design and low friction materials if friction losses are relevent in such a well lubticated situation, and thinner synthetic oils.
I can see the advantage of driving the pump from an seperate battery and charging in the pits, but if the battery goes flat Bang goes your engine!!
We used to Drag Race with a switch in the power line from the alternator which efectivly turns off the coils and loadings from the alternator.
if you are still keen on an electric oil pump what about some of the new generation Electric PAS pump.
Ian
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Old 18 Aug 2006, 11:33 (Ref:1685894)   #13
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Electric Oil Pump

Perhaps these chaps may be able to help.
http://www.emp-corp.com/html/product...ricOilPump.asp
Rgds
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Old 19 Aug 2006, 08:43 (Ref:1686491)   #14
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Think its usefull for a better centre of gravity in racing and packaging advantage for example in mid engined cars
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Old 19 Aug 2006, 09:29 (Ref:1686523)   #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ger80
Think its usefull for a better centre of gravity in racing and packaging advantage for example in mid engined cars
Isnt the best to use a dry sump system with a belt driven external pump?
There are also single stage belt driven oilpumps for wet sump systems.
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Old 19 Aug 2006, 12:42 (Ref:1686613)   #16
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Maybe its not possible to use the lowest possible position with a belt driven pump because the belt restricts the possible positions.
But I think this is maybe important for F1 and some others, but not for my street VW lupo
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Old 25 Aug 2006, 20:56 (Ref:1691758)   #17
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Quote:
Originally Posted by morrisnutter
Does anyone know where I can source an elctric oil pump? The only oes I can find on the web seem to be just for an oil cooler. I'd like to replace the mechanical pump totally (and get rid of some parasitic losses too )

It doesn't matter what engine they're meant for- I can modify to fit!

Any pointers gratefully accepted!
You dont get something for nothing ie oil pressure made by an electric pump and also reliability

Last edited by dtype38; 29 Aug 2006 at 18:53.
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Old 1 Sep 2006, 10:17 (Ref:1699183)   #18
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ian.stewart
surly if it takes 5hp to drive the oil pump, and you remove the pump from the engine and put an electric motor on the pump, does it still not take 5hp to drive the pump??
No, it takes more than 5hp. Alternators are not 100% efficient, batteries are not 100% efficient, therefore there is a loss in the power supply to the pump, probably as much as 20%, therefore it would take 5hp+20% to drive it in real terms ie: 6hp.

It's like these people who think that running a Lexus or Toyota Hybrid drive car is better for the environment. It is not, because of the reasons I describe relating to the efficiency of generating devices, and storage devices, let alone the motors themselves. I have seen many road tests for these, and their overall fuel consumption is higher than that of a conventional drive vehicle, plus there is the end-of-life disposal of the batteries to consider. Not green, no no no no no no nooooooooo.

The most efficient drive is direct mechanical with low friction in that drive.

Using the pump, like an accusump, to pre-charge the oil system before the engine fires is fine. To expect to use it in place of the existing system, I feel is misguided.

Until we get the Mr Fusion Home Energy Generator (as fitted to a certain DeLorean), we won't be getting something for nothing (or nearly nothing!).


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Old 30 Sep 2006, 21:52 (Ref:1723907)   #19
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VDO make a specific oil pump. its about 75% of the size of a modern external electric fuel pump. we use them for diff and gearbox oil coolers. i have seen them used as an engine oil coller pump, separate to the main pump. it would not be hard to rig them for priming, but I dont know their stall pressure.
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Old 2 Oct 2006, 23:52 (Ref:1725787)   #20
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Possibly?

Check out paceproducts.com.uk They surely have something that will let you get rid of the internal mechanical pump and replace it with an external electric or mechanical.
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Old 3 Oct 2006, 15:25 (Ref:1726500)   #21
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Quote:
Originally Posted by racing59
No, it takes more than 5hp. Alternators are not 100% efficient, batteries are not 100% efficient, therefore there is a loss in the power supply to the pump, probably as much as 20%, therefore it would take 5hp+20% to drive it in real terms ie: 6hp.

It's like these people who think that running a Lexus or Toyota Hybrid drive car is better for the environment. It is not, because of the reasons I describe relating to the efficiency of generating devices, and storage devices, let alone the motors themselves. I have seen many road tests for these, and their overall fuel consumption is higher than that of a conventional drive vehicle, plus there is the end-of-life disposal of the batteries to consider. Not green, no no no no no no nooooooooo.

The most efficient drive is direct mechanical with low friction in that drive.

Using the pump, like an accusump, to pre-charge the oil system before the engine fires is fine. To expect to use it in place of the existing system, I feel is misguided.

Until we get the Mr Fusion Home Energy Generator (as fitted to a certain DeLorean), we won't be getting something for nothing (or nearly nothing!).


Rob.
Take a Toyota hybrid car, put all the hybrid devices out and it will need less fuel than before due to lower weight
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