Spectator interest

[old man]

I would like to see some of your views on where we go with all GT series on two fronts, circuit attendance and TV as I consider these are both the same really, they depend on the paying spectator who is too often ignored or given scant attention in my opinion.

If we are to race at top circuits the owners of those circuits must see a return on their investment and so negotiate a fee from the series organiser that is proportional to the crowd figures, the bigger the crowd the lower the fee so that F1 can charge millions to race somewhere and can take their pick of circuits wheras SRO has to pay to be there so goes where he can afford to pay the fee.

Same applies to TV, to take the extremes again, F1 charges millions, SRO or BTCC pay for coverage and this all depends on the viewing figures and consequent advertising revenue. If the series has to pay to get on the circuit or to get on TV this has to come from the entrants and adds considerably to running costs.

So, my question is, why is ALMS apparently gaining spectators and what can the European series learn from this and do to bring the crowds in? DSC has quoted examples of people going home to watch on TV becasue they could not follow the race at the circuit. I once complained about this to an SRO person who told me to "find a timing screen", helpful to the people on the trackside!

The quality of the TV coverage of the FIA has been better in my personal opinion this year because the commentators work for the same firm that does the camera work and are actually at the race and care about the racing wheras the Eurosport guys were asked to do it from a TV picture as it was transmitted. The problem this year was was that the FIA series was on an obscure channel in the UK presumably because the fee that channel required was lower than better known ones.

So my expert friends, where should we go to increase viewing and spectaor figures so that manufacturers and sponsors are more interested and the whole thing can grow?

As they say on exam papers- Discuss!

[chocmonster7]

Making things as fan friendly as possible which includes timing screens, access to the paddocks, autograph sessions and decent ticket prices are all things which the American sportscar scene seems to have found the right formula for.

It would even help European fans to know that at some tracks they could get the commentary via a radio if they brought one with them. Little things go a long way!

[JAG]

In Europe you have to follow the ACO's model with the LMS.

I've criticised them for the lack of promotion but they've learned over the years you need to build a series up by attracting privateers, then the manufactuers who will invest in the promotion. Once the balls rolling entrants and TV/sponsors will feed off each other and maintain momentum (fingers crossed), as Le Mans does, year in, year out.

Crucially, with the ACO running the show you know they have the best interests of sportscar racing at heart.

With an FIA series you always have the feeling the FIA wil take what they can and don't give a toss about the future of the series (also the case for touring cars, rallying etc.).

When Group C was thriving they took a greater interest and diverted manufactuers and teams to F1, while they allowed unhomologated cars to compete in FIA GT which killed the old GT1 class withing 2 years.

If it was my money I'd stay well away from any FIA series!

In the US it appears more cut throat, you don't ghave et the time to build a series naturally, you either invest or die. This is arguably why the ALMS got off to a flying start with manufactuer entrants, but struggled for some years to build up a decent privateer field.

[Nick49]

Hello,

My personal opinion is that motorsport is about 20 years behind other sports with regard to promotion and looking after the fans with the obvious exceptions of Formula One and NASCAR. Its about time that series organisers and circuit owners embraced the modern era and made circuit radio, circuit TV, viewing screens and leaderboards all part and parcel of the event. For God's sake embrace modern technology like everyone else seems to do. Its suppose to be the way forward.

We do get circuit radio occasionally but its 87.7 fm at Goodwood and 1205am at Silverstone or something like that. It should be standardised in the UK at least!

I have watched Silverstone TV at a BPR round back in 1997 so I know it can be done (and my family enjoyed watching the racing as we sat in the car eating lunch).

Viewing screens and leaderboards are vital for those people either without a radio or just taking a break from it. Yes you can sometimes find great viewing spots but I've yet to go to a circuit where you can see absolutely everything (Brands Indy and Lyddon notwithstanding ).

I have to agree with "Old Man" that the coverage of the FIA GT has been much better this year BUT it is on a bit of an obscure TV channel here in the UK so it probably won't draw anyone who isn't already a committed fan.

All in all the organisers and circuit owners just have to work a LOT harder at promotion and I have to agree with "JAG" about the FIA's interest in their own series or motor racing in general!!

Finally don't get me started on the demise of the Group C sportscar series as that is still a sore point for me .

Nick

[AstonGeoff]

The problem for spectators know what is going on is easily solved!

1) Radio coverage of the commentary, but also sell branded low cost radios at the circuit, or give them away with the program!
2) Position lights on the cars as per ALMS
3) Big TV screens dotted about


But I don't think that's the problem, I think it's more a problem that 4 wheeled motor racing outside of F1 (and LM, and possibly BTCC) is just not fashionable in this country! There are so many alternatives for people to spend there leisure pounds on that spending an afternoon in the cold at Silverstone or Brands or Donington just doesn't appeal to many people anymore. It's not just endurance racing that has a problem getting the fans to attend, I've been to many a race meeting where there are more cars on the grid than fans in the stands (or so it seems)! The cost of tickets is always an issue, but then many leisure activities or sporting events cost way more attending a LMS or GT race weekend, and often circuits don't charge for kids anyway. But maybe if hospitality marquees could be offered at a sensible price it might attract punters for a special day out, but probably no in large numbers.

For the fans that are prepared to make the effort I've always found the LMS and FIA GT teams quite welcoming, just as long as you don't get in the way! and the autograph session at Donington was well attended by drivers and fans alike!

What doesn't help LMS and GT's is the miserly coverage given to it by magazines like Autosport who give over pages and pages to a dull as ditchwater GP but only a page or so to a 6 hour LMS race!

I don't think there is any magic wand to get fans attending LMS or GT races, the three things I mentioned at the top would certainly help, but also telling the public and fans alike all about the series and whats on offer might inform potential spectators. Almost everyone reading this or other Endurance racing forums are already fans, but far too many will only ever go to LM, why is that?

[dj choc ice]

Originally Posted by AstonGeoff

The problem for spectators know what is going on is easily solved!

1) Radio coverage of the commentary, but also sell branded low cost radios at the circuit, or give them away with the program!
2) Position lights on the cars as per ALMS
3) Big TV screens dotted about


But I don't think that's the problem, I think it's more a problem that 4 wheeled motor racing outside of F1 (and LM, and possibly BTCC) is just not fashionable in this country! There are so many alternatives for people to spend there leisure pounds on that spending an afternoon in the cold at Silverstone or Brands or Donington just doesn't appeal to many people anymore. It's not just endurance racing that has a problem getting the fans to attend, I've been to many a race meeting where there are more cars on the grid than fans in the stands (or so it seems)! The cost of tickets is always an issue, but then many leisure activities or sporting events cost way more attending a LMS or GT race weekend, and often circuits don't charge for kids anyway. But maybe if hospitality marquees could be offered at a sensible price it might attract punters for a special day out, but probably no in large numbers.

For the fans that are prepared to make the effort I've always found the LMS and FIA GT teams quite welcoming, just as long as you don't get in the way! and the autograph session at Donington was well attended by drivers and fans alike!

What doesn't help LMS and GT's is the miserly coverage given to it by magazines like Autosport who give over pages and pages to a dull as ditchwater GP but only a page or so to a 6 hour LMS race!

I don't think there is any magic wand to get fans attending LMS or GT races, the three things I mentioned at the top would certainly help, but also telling the public and fans alike all about the series and whats on offer might inform potential spectators. Almost everyone reading this or other Endurance racing forums are already fans, but far too many will only ever go to LM, why is that?

the last section is something that perplexes me maybe people only go to lemans 24 hours because it is lemans 24 hours just to see what its like i dont think there are tons and tons of people out there interested in sports car racing anymore the culture now is more brutal and violent and people prefer shunting and crashing a la BTCC rounds of recent

sportscars is on the up but the whole diesel thing wont help its helping at the moment a bit but it will come back to kick the ACO, SRO and the sportscar scene in the arse very very hard when the grid is made up of cars that sound like milkfloats instead of race cars

i think better TV coverage would help the sport i agree about autosport there is about 5 pages on a GP and to be honest i read a page and i am bored poopless already from reading it and there is only a 1 or 2 page spread on sportscars and that includes ALMS, LMS, FIA GT and the british GT

maybe advertising in local newspaper and radio helps a lot there was the children in need gig at colwyn bay were i live and it was on TV on children in need a lot as the feeling, jamelia and ronan keating were playing live there but it was advertised so poorly it was unreal if it werent for a friend myself and a lot of other people would have been completely oblivious to the fact that the feeling were a third of a mile down the road from us about to play live in a few hours when by then it would have been to late

so here are mine to help sportscar racing

local promotion newspapers, radio and TV adverts
better race tracking such as big TV screen and timing screen
better TV coverage when these evets are on
leaflets at car shows e.g the MPH 06 show, autosport show and also in autosport magazines and so on and so forth

[old man]

Hey guys & gals I have really got you going here, good long replies with some thought and effort, thanks for the ineterest in what is one of my big beefs!

Tha Autosport thing drives me mad but I am told if they don't have GP featured on the cover sales from the stands are down by a big number. Try finding the GT2 report for an ALMS or LMS, it can be as little as 50 words. We need to get this thread accross to SRO and the LMS organisers so I hope it keeps going.

Away on business for a couple of days but like your views so far, how do put these comments to those that matter?

[Truckosaurus]

Certain GT/Sportscar events in the UK get decent crowds, so there are enough people out there who would attend, it's just a case of getting them (and I'm including myself in that number) to attend regularly.

[AU N EGL]

Originally Posted by old man

Hey guys & gals I have really got you going here, good long replies with some thought and effort, thanks for the ineterest in what is one of my big beefs!

Tha Autosport thing drives me mad but I am told if they don't have GP featured on the cover sales from the stands are down by a big number. Try finding the GT2 report for an ALMS ...

Is this what your looking for??
2006 A RECORD YEAR FOR SERIES, IMSA
http://www.americanlemans.com/news/Article.aspx?ID=2721

[courageous]

there are 3 big questions:

Do you aim to make it better for the die hard fan or Joe Bloggs in the street?

What's better - highlights on ITV or full live coverage on Player/Motors?

Should it be the organiser, promoter or circuit who sorts out track side?

[AU N EGL]

Originally Posted by courageous

there are 3 big questions:

Do you aim to make it better for the die hard fan or Joe Bloggs in the street?

Or the big dollar corporate sponsors?

What's better - highlights on ITV or full live coverage on Player/Motors?

Both. LIVE, for the diehards

Should it be the organiser, promoter or circuit who sorts out track side?

Event promotor. The circuit is just rented for the few days.

[JAG]

The circuits have to play a part by improving facilties.

There are lower division football teams attracting less than 2500 fans, every two weeks, yet they have state of the art facilities.

I find it amazing we don't have effective PA systems and electronic scoreboards at major UK circuits.

It's even more amazing when these circuits claim povety yet the sport is jam packed with very, very, very rich people!

But I guess the fans don't matter as long as they continue to pay their £20 quid!

[JAG]

Originally Posted by Truckosaurus

Certain GT/Sportscar events in the UK get decent crowds, so there are enough people out there who would attend, it's just a case of getting them (and I'm including myself in that number) to attend regularly.

Oulton Park had a BTCC rivaling crowd thanks to being on a Bank Holiday and well promoted. And to think this round was in danger of being ditched, another case of who cares about the spectators!

I've been to well promoted BPR GT rounds with crowds twice the size FIA GT has enjoyed in recent years!

All to do with promotion and not ripping the fans off!

[AU N EGL]

Originally Posted by JAG

I find it amazing we don't have effective PA systems and electronic scoreboards at major UK circuits.

Here in the states only NASCAR ovals have those state of the art eletronics. Some of the circuits have what some might call a PA only in the Paddocks. Forget the spectator areas.

More and more US track are putting in timing and scoring systems that ppl get on their puters.

http://www.mylaptimes.com for one.

[TheNewBob]

The general feeling then is event promotion and keeping the fans entertained?

I do agree with JAG and his feelings about the FIA and their money-grabbing, and ability to make championships flop. The whole new GT4 idea just stinks of attempts to get more money out of fans and teams. You can probably guarantee the ticket prices will go up, too. An example is in 2005 it was £10 for on-the-day paddock access at Silverstone. For the LMES meeting that year, paddock access was free.

PF International karting circuit has scoreboards for the spectators to see. Two, in fact. I'm wondering why some circuits don't put that sort of feature up for the crowds? Donington used to have a small scoreboard system working at the top of the tower on the main straight. What happened to that?

The big TV screens help a lot - they were absent at Donington LMS this year but Silverstone is normally pretty good for that feature.

I think the teams and fans need to feel "wanted" at a race meeting, as opposed to being "privileged" to be there. It's a real privilege to be at Le Mans, particularly for a team/driver. Those same teams and drivers can destroy a championship by not turning up if they don't feel it's worth it, so the governing bodies should be keeping a watchful eye on bringing people in, and not on their bank balances.

[bonedome]

I think more promotion is a good thing, entice people in as the BTCC did with the riverside displays in Newcastle last year, and somewhere else (memory escapes me), this way you could educate people and hopefully make them the next generation of hardcore fans.

And avoid F1 Silverstone ticket prices, £150 ish for a general admission ticket for 2 hours F1 "racing" compared to £50 for a general admission to Le Mans for 24hrs racing.
in my humble opinion

[brielga]

I think it starts with knowledge which in turn brings appreciation. When I was a kid I got hooked on Sportscars because magazine coverage was the same as F1. Nowadays any kid knows F1 drivers, teams, etc. but where do we get them the sportscar info? Autosport in the UK, Autosprint in Italy, the Dutch magazines all feature Sportscar as a side line, an `also ran` feature that can be summarized (for them) in a page with 3 pictures and 2 paragraphs despite 6 hour races and 50 entrants. Even national rally categories get better coverage!!! Since Bernie discovered gunpowder the racing world media turns around F1 and the race format is also adapted to that (save the American series but that`s another philosophy altogether with 10 potential winners each race). Of course we need the radio coverage being known and better info supply electronically but the total lack of promotion is appalling, in the 60s or 70s there were also big crowds with less info provided on track but I agree it`s a fantastic ingredient, RLM is the best proof. I`ve been to many LMS rounds and you would not know the Ring has a 1000km race even if you drive past it!!!! Let alone Jarama (that nevertheless showed a decent crowd) or Spa where tons more people show up for the 24 hours than for the 1000km. It is however a catch 22 since the investment needed to get the promotion going is a risk nobody seems to be ready to take... Many things can be done better (I agree about the TV comments posted before) but a jump into the unknown seems to be the missing ingredient. I personally believe Don Panoz jumped and this is the reason for ALMS to still survive despite all difficulties. Just my 2 (or 22? ) cents...

[JAG]

'It is however a catch 22 since the investment needed to get the promotion going is a risk nobody seems to be ready to take... '

Other than manufactuers, which leads onto Peugeot and Audi in the LMS.

Once the balls rolling everyone benefits, invests more, recieves more media coverage etc.

[AU N EGL]

A big part of the ALMS monicor is the phrase, "For the Fans." the ALMS does many differnt things for the fans at the races. Paddocks for different cars, Porsches in one area, Covettes in another area, and so on with differnt spectator cars.

Fan contestest, allowing fans and spectators into the paddocks to look at the race cars the days before the race. Autograph sessions with drivers.

Plenty of photo ops for spectators and fans with drivers and cars.

All good things which as helped the ALMS build up its spectator and fan base.

[old man]

[quote=TheNewBob]The general feeling then is event promotion and keeping the fans entertained?


"PF International karting circuit has scoreboards for the spectators to see. Two, in fact. I'm wondering why some circuits don't put that sort of feature up for the crowds? Donington used to have a small scoreboard system working at the top of the tower on the main straight. What happened to that?"

Ah well, there you have a man who really cares about racing, in Paul Fletchers (PF) case Karting, and he had enough money to do the job properly. That circuit was not built to make money, it was built to provide the UK with a true international kart circuit. PF was racing karts himself to a ripe old age in class1 international and was no slouch but never made the move to cars.

But your point is a good one, if PF can have scorboeards at a kart track it is a scandla that the one at Donington, owned by an even wealthier race enthusiast, does not work? Timing information is a must and the computer based sytem that works in the States and was mentioned by AU N EGL would be great but someone would have to publicise the fact that it was available and what hand set to use to get it and how. I suppose with wireless internet you could get the live timing websites but is this possible at places like Sliverstone?

[old man]

Originally Posted by JAG

'It is however a catch 22 since the investment needed to get the promotion going is a risk nobody seems to be ready to take... '

Other than manufactuers, which leads onto Peugeot and Audi in the LMS.

Once the balls rolling everyone benefits, invests more, recieves more media coverage etc.

Reading through I agree that LMS would appear to have made a move forward by linking the TV for the 24 to the LMS series and this is probably because Peugeot and Andi want it.

The points made by Bielga are quite correct, all the magazines are guilty of killing interest in Sports/GT racing. This week Autosport have a big piece by Garry Watkins on the R8 but when they do the season review the class structure will not be reported equally and yet discussion in various threads on 10/10ths agrees that all the series rely on a class structure to survive. The problem with Autosport is the editor looks too young to remember anything from the past Sports/GT racing era and Watkins is a freelance who probably feels lucky to get anything published so sticks to the race winners and ignores the class winners. The fact that each class is a race on it's own is lost on the little boys who edit these comics and why should sponsors and entrants invest money in classess that do not get coverage even if you are a front runner.

If we got a fair spread of cover in the magazines the casual reader who is not enough of an enthusiast to find out when races are on and where would read of exciting races and want to be there. If this entices him in good, but when he gets there he needs to know who is doing what and long distance races are not easy to follow so that without info he does not know the heroic stories of fight backs afeter adversity that are aften a feature. It is true as one contibutor said, one often feels one should be be greatful to be able to watch the big boys playing with their toys as some promotors simply ignore the casual spectator and make no effort to inform him or tempt him back next year. Does anybody feel like doing an analysis of advertising revenue linked to Sports/GT racing in the magzines and comparing it to column inches and then doing the same for F1?

We have excellent suggestions in the replies to my original question but does anybody from SRO, LMS, FIA or the comics read what we, as the cogniscenti think and if they do, do they give a ****?

[AU N EGL]

More and More events are using the AMB Personal Transponders
http://www.amb-it.com/ For timing and scoring.

Many of if not just about all of the circuits here in the US have perminet wiring for the AMB transponders. Part of the set up is a wireless hot spot as well

So live timeing and scoring is relativly easy to do. Teams bring lap tops. or can be seen at http://www.mylaps.com

One can go to the car section and see races world wide
http://www.mylaps.com/results/showev...0&st=2&sport=3

Example Nov 18 a PBOC ( Porsche BMW Owners Club ) Event at Babrour Motorsports park In Alabama

http://www.mylaps.com/results/showevent.jsp?id=179369

So great for live timeing for any event.

[old man]

As I have said AU N EGL you are more aware of the value of the spectator in the US of A, can any of our "officials" comment on some these points?

[MikeHoyer]

A street display or something would help I think... there's probably a lot of car enthusiasts who would like to see Porsches, Ferraris etc., they're just not necessarily aware of what's going on.

Or there's just the preconception that endurance racing is "boring", so you need a lot going on at the circuit to keep people entertained. But who wants to risk spending a packet on spectator entertainment, unless they're guarenteed to turn up in their thousands?

[AU N EGL]

Originally Posted by MikeHoyer

But who wants to risk spending a packet on spectator entertainment, unless they're guarenteed to turn up in their thousands?

That is where LARGE corperate sponsors come in. Each large corperate sponsor ( greater then $20,000 or E20,000) recieves 100 comp tickets, a hospitality tent, VIP parking. Sonsor can bring in their own food and drink.

That Sponsor can give tickets to major clients, and employees. Truns out to be a large Company function at a race.


Now a promotor starts getting 10 or so Large sponsors at $20,000 each. Four or so Gold Sponsors at $100,000 each and one PRESENTING sponsor at $500,000.

Sponsors also help with advertising to the public. It all comes together.