Dyson to Switch to LMP2 with Porsches???

[Bob Riebe]

Originally Posted by jhansen

And what way was that? You mean with its opponents spinning and penalizing themselves down the grid? Yes, rock solid proof.

I was just thinking, if pit rules as now exist, existed back when Porsche used to beat Detroit iron with fuel mileage; it would have been an odd sight: Porsches and BMWs finishing 1st to last car running and US cars would have to have a special prize money category based on first in DNF, or would that be last?

The US cars had to pit more often than the German cars. They would have been faced with he dilema of either run till dry, and lose the race, or pit for gasoline, and lose the race anyway, via penalty.
Ah to be, or not to be....
Bob

[eddsc]

"When the ACO published the regulations for diesel engines three years ago, I called them and asked if they knew what they were doing. I am not an expert, but just looking at the regulations I could see that, with the air inlet restrictors that were specified, you could have so much air going into the engine that you could have at least 800 bhp. And don't even talk about the torque!"
So who said that?

[JAG]

Originally Posted by chernaudi

Well I did kinda see this one. Where does Dyson have all their ALMS wins, with the exception of 3, they're all in the LMP2( or LMP675 at the time). They feel that the Lola LMP cars are junk right now, and they want to win races, at least in class.

I wonder if they are junk, or is a link up with Porsche just too good to turn down, especially if Dyson has some insight on their future plans.

Another year developing the Lola followed by a Championship challenge in 2008, or a P2 Championship challenge in '07-'08, Porsche P1 in 2009/10.

[JAG]

Originally Posted by eddsc

No, not at all. But bearing in mind the economy that the R10s displayed one race later, logically they weren't running at anything like full power/torque - which helped make it look as though the weight disparity was really significant.. more so than it really was.. perhaps.

Who knows, then again Zytek and Creation didn't exactly have the opportunity to pressure the Audi late in the race (Laguna) thanks to off's and penalties.

[chernaudi]

And that's one of the problems. These teams are screwing themselves out of opportunities. That was the same way with the R8. Audi almost never had problems, and when they did, something as bad or worse will happen to the opposition, or would still simply be out ran.

And I don't understand people using the fact that the R10 was diesel powered as an excuse for their problems. The R8 had a whole back end that could be changed in 4 minutes-no one complained( or atleast loudly). Then the R8 used FSI direct fuel injection, and made more power, and ran 1-2 more laps at LM than anything else. Again, no one complained. To me, the saddest thing about IMSA's competition adjustments(and the ACO's new rules) is that it gives too many people too many reasons to whine. Just like NASCAR of a few years ago. The only way to stop this is used spec cars-which is not what Le Mans type sportscar racing is about.

[chernaudi]

And remember, the R8 in its resticted forms even, had no trouble cleanin' house-just look at Houston and Lime Rock. So what did everyone think that the R10 would do. The way I see it, if you couldn't beat the R8, what did you expect? Just take your butt whoopin' like a man, just like you did with the R8.

[chewymonster]

The diesel will always be more fuel efficient thatn the gasoline counterpart. Even with the smaller fuel tank, Audi will probably take a lap to the gasoline P1s at Le Mans, but there the diesel Peugeot will be the competition. In ALMS, there are only a few races in which fuel economy comes into play significantly at all.

[KA]

Originally Posted by chernaudi

And remember, the R8 in its resticted forms even, had no trouble cleanin' house-just look at Houston and Lime Rock. So what did everyone think that the R10 would do. The way I see it, if you couldn't beat the R8, what did you expect? Just take your butt whoopin' like a man, just like you did with the R8.

maybe the difference is that with the R8 you knew you were up against a better car run by a better-resourced team. With the R10, the suggestion seems to be that you're still up against that better car and better-resourced team, AND the rules appear to favour the damn thing as well....

Interesting thought, that we'll probably never know the answer to- how would the R8 have done against the R10...?

[chernaudi]

Well maybe one day some rich nut will buy one of each, and have someone race them against one another. Put the R8 back into 2002 spec., and let'em rip! I've asked this on a Audi forum, and the opinion is that the R10 will be somewhat better( improved fuel economy, and having a 3-4 years more development). I feel(and hope) that Champion Racing may race their R8 against the R10 next year( my chances of dating Cher are better than this happening, but weirder things have happened). However, that would be a sight to see.

[Bentley03]

Originally Posted by eddsc

"When the ACO published the regulations for diesel engines three years ago, I called them and asked if they knew what they were doing. I am not an expert, but just looking at the regulations I could see that, with the air inlet restrictors that were specified, you could have so much air going into the engine that you could have at least 800 bhp. And don't even talk about the torque!"
So who said that?

Well, I'm interested anyway..........

Sounds like Henri to me, but it could be Rob Dyson.

Can't say I'm too excited about this move by Dyson, although I fully respect and support their reasons for doing so. I regard this as a nett loss for the ALMS, and I lay the blame squarely at the door of the ACO.

[class4v]

My personal thought on eddsc's article with Pesca:

Interesting, the article with Pescarolo. But :

1. Les bleus is not what Pesca's team is called it's 'les verts'

2. What about the teams/manufacturers as Lola, Creation, Dome even Epsilon that have launched designs on closed cars? For sure it's easier to stay with a concept from people who designed something new(Reynard, Lola,...)that is copied with some minor development.

3. Technology is moving on... today the diesel, tomorrow the bio ethanol (some teams have anounced their 2008 projects) and very soon the hybrid technologies (some big manufacturers have had some meetings with the ACO about it). This all will cost money and teams wanting to fight will have to find the partnerships to compete and some did that just a few weeks ago (i.e. Creation)

4. Manufacturing and building technology is also evolving, we have to keep up with that and even initiate new developments.

I believe that challenges and new projects are the elements that move people, companies and organizations. I also believe (Creation showed the way) that all good teams have the ability to find partnerships that will help them in building packages that will do great. Yes, manufacturers are difficult to beat, but wasn't that always the case? And even if you can't beat them, why not joining them or working for them? The more manufacturers will be present the better it will be for everybody.
And what about 2005 when 'les verts' had their biggest chance to win as the ruling was completely against the R8 (LMP9000 version with private teams) but they failed?

[chewymonster]

Originally Posted by class4v

My personal thought on eddsc's article with Pesca:

And what about 2005 when 'les verts' had their biggest chance to win as the ruling was completely against the R8 (LMP9000 version with private teams) but they failed?

Yes, wasn't the Audi like 5 seconds slower per lap.

[HORNDAWG]

Originally Posted by class4v

My personal thought on eddsc's article with Pesca:

Interesting, the article with Pescarolo. But :

1. Les bleus is not what Pesca's team is called it's 'les verts'

2. What about the teams/manufacturers as Lola, Creation, Dome even Epsilon that have launched designs on closed cars? For sure it's easier to stay with a concept from people who designed something new(Reynard, Lola,...)that is copied with some minor development.

3. Technology is moving on... today the diesel, tomorrow the bio ethanol (some teams have anounced their 2008 projects) and very soon the hybrid technologies (some big manufacturers have had some meetings with the ACO about it). This all will cost money and teams wanting to fight will have to find the partnerships to compete and some did that just a few weeks ago (i.e. Creation)

4. Manufacturing and building technology is also evolving, we have to keep up with that and even initiate new developments.

I believe that challenges and new projects are the elements that move people, companies and organizations. I also believe (Creation showed the way) that all good teams have the ability to find partnerships that will help them in building packages that will do great. Yes, manufacturers are difficult to beat, but wasn't that always the case? And even if you can't beat them, why not joining them or working for them? The more manufacturers will be present the better it will be for everybody.
And what about 2005 when 'les verts' had their biggest chance to win as the ruling was completely against the R8 (LMP9000 version with private teams) but they failed?

Yes I would have to agree, this is supposed to be the LeMans "Prototype" class of sports car.

Now back to Dyson. Here is a blue and white liveried Dyson/Porsche from 1988.
http://www.racingsportscars.com/phot...-14-photo.html

L.P.

[eddsc]

I think everyone knew what was meant by "les bleus".
The words were from Norbert Singer, in Michael Cotton's excellent 24:16 book.
In 2005, Pescarolo certainly did have a speed advantage, but as he pointed out, he was let down by his gearbox supplier - something that can always happen to a privateer.

[Bentley03]

Originally Posted by eddsc

I think everyone knew what was meant by "les bleus".
The words were from Norbert Singer, in Michael Cotton's excellent 24:16 book.
In 2005, Pescarolo certainly did have a speed advantage, but as he pointed out, he was let down by his gearbox supplier - something that can always happen to a privateer.

Yep, any French Team are 'les bleus', even 'les verts'!

Thanks for the Norbert Singer quote, Malcolm. It gives perspective to so many of the diesel/petrol discussions on here.