the going rate

[ss_collins]

So whats the going rate out there - I know what some mags pay for pic usage - but I think its unfair for me to say others rates. I pay around $40 (US) per image and whilst not huge we pay promptly (and the one cock up that has occured happened to a tenths member - sorry it'll get sorted!) and I think fairly.

But what do you lot think is a fair rate of pay for a magazine and also for a book?

[BertMk2]

It depends on usage - if it's a small image on a news item then that's not worth as much as a half page of spectaluar action shot. It's also worth noting that amateurs (ie those taking pics from the spectator areas) can't actually 'sell' their images from most circuits (legally).

Books are a different area again - some photos are commisioned specifically for a book (eg your work with Gavin for the Autodrome book) whilst others are included in a book because they're part of the historical record of an event. How much they're worth can also be dependent on their historical importance - if it's the only known image of a certain driver/car/event then it'll carry a premium whereas other subjects may be ten a penny.

So the simple answer is it depends

[badgerbaiter]

like everything else that has a price tag its about supply and demand

seems everyone is trying to break into the 'selling motorsport photos' business and who can blame them? its an enjoyable job and getting paid is a bonus.
if the photos required are ones that most photographers could supply then there is a lot of supply and little demand. therefore the prices are rock bottom (and even free in some cases).
if its a photo that no one else took and all the mags want it (the verstappen mechanic through the flames is the most famous one) then supply is small and demand is high so therefore so is the price.

speaking as someone who deals in buying and selling i'd say the old saying of 'its value is what someone will pay for it' works very well.

[badgerbaiter]

Originally Posted by BertMk2

It's also worth noting that amateurs (ie those taking pics from the spectator areas) can't actually 'sell' their images from most circuits (legally).

in some cases thats also the same for the ones with photo media passes

[Kelvin]

I was appoached recently by a compny in USA to use an image I took many years ago at Santa Pod raceway. Not sure, but as I understand it is to be used on some trade stand. I asked for $200 They areed to this and asked for 5 more images. Sadly they wont pay $200 for each image, as this exceeds thir budget. We have agreed on $800, which I am very pleased with, which is just over £400.

Kelvin

[zac510]

ss_collins, do you go to the public when you can't get the photo you want from the stock library?
I imagine getting action photos (or a scoop) would be more important for a news magazine but I know yours isn't.

[ss_collins]

perhaps not the public but yes to other snappers

[zac510]

Yeah by public I just meant somebody not on your books already!

[PaulSands]

The problem is that theres doesnt appear to be a "going rate" as such. Publications like Autosport have set rates for images as do many of the local daily newspapers but many of the smaller papers virtually fit if they look like theyre going to have to pay for an image.
Wit the advent of cheaply available digital equipment it gets harder on harder to sell at a good rate. I was approached about images to use on a website early last year and decided I'd check out the NUJ recommended rates...I nearly died when I saw the prices. I ended up quoting 50% of those rates and I never heard a peep from that prospective client again whereas others wher I have applied my own dicretion to proved to be successful.
I havent done motorsport since May last year but my experience since of equestrian photography is that yes people can grab a digital camera and get what looks like a half decent shot but 99 times out of 100 they cant get a good shot let alone a great shot..did I veer off topic there???

[Isadora]

Originally Posted by ss_collins

and the one cock up that has occured happened to a tenths member - sorry it'll get sorted!

Soon I hope

[ss_collins]

I'd suggest the NUJ rates are wildly optimistic and if you quote anything near that you'll lose (my) business.

[PaulSands]

A conclusion I'd reached almost immediately

[gi_gav]

The NUJ rates are based on commercial photography, where there is still some semblance of a structure to the industry, and the requirements for photographers (in terms of equipment, experience, time etc.) are usually much higher than in our world.

Last year I had a major US chemicals group ask to buy all rights to one photo - given that it would have involved usage worldwide in prominent marketing I quoted a reasonable commercial rate (higher than motorsport usually sees). Surprisingly enough, I didn't hear back from them and I'm aware that they were quoted regular motorsport rates from other photographers who presumably didn't know or didn't care about its actual usage.

In cases like this, I think motorsport photographers can be just a little naive sometimes...

As for mags (Racecar included, as Sam well knows) my gripe is when the same rate is paid for a 1.5" shot as it is for a full-page or even a cover.

That's all a very long-winded way of saying that usage should determine the fee!

[MikeHoyer]

I've read a LOT about charging x amount for such a usage, don't under-sell yourself etc. Take into account equipment cost, how much it cost to get to the location, time taken, etc. etc. etc.

That's fine in theory, but as far as many clients are concerned it took a fraction of a second to take the photo, so it's not worth much if anything at all. Nevermind your expensive equipment, your time taken etc.

I can think of at least two situations where I've given what I think is a decent price, and had it turned down.

Situation 1: A manufacturer contacted me regarding a car that they were testing. It was being built for the track day market mainly, and they wanted some advertising shots of this car on track, as well as some "artistic" static shots. Basically a full days work to ensure that everything was covered. The shots would then be used in publications that would appeal to the type of person who might hire or buy the car, essentially someone with a lot of money!
They asked me how much I wanted. I quoted a pretty low price, based on another job I'd done. We made an agreement, then a few minutes later they phoned me back to say they didn't want to spend any more money on advertising, thanks very much, but I'm sure we can find someone who'll do it for free....

Situation 2: Someone asked me about some shots to use as display panels at an exhibition. I found a cost using Fotoquote, generally considered to be the standard tool for that sort of thing. I quoted them the lower amount, and again got the "we'd hope it would be free" line.

So it can be very difficult dealing with people regarding money. Of course there are others who have a better idea of what they are doing, and offer a fair price and are professional (plus pay quickly!)

[PaulSands]

You have just put your finger on the main reason I dont do motorsport at the moment.
At least now I can say "its my job how much work do you do for free" if confronted by that plus if confronted by the argument its a split second thing I also point out that its travelling, its content review its image editing and if you think its so easy you do it cos while its not the hardest job in the world if you jst hand your camera over to somebody and say get a good shot 90% of the time its cr*p and at best its a snapshot. Again whereas I cant be too fussy about the price I can be fussy enough