Ford ends its relationship

[coyote9999]

Ah Indycool I see you are your usual optimistic self about Champ Cars. If you look at the list of sponsors and partners on the site right now on the CCWS there are more names now then when KK and friends bought the series. Who said they absolutely need to find someone to replace Ford in 2 and a half months? I never said that. And 2 and a half months is enough time to prepare stuff for fans.

[indycool]

I've looked at the new logo without Bridgestone and Ford on it. IMO, that's not a good thing.

People have offered alternatives to Ford, which may or may not have any semblance of a sniff at it and we don't know one way or the other. In any case, losing two presenting sponsors can't be construed as a gain. I'm mystified by those who think that.

[luke]

Originally Posted by indycool

In any case, losing two presenting sponsors can't be construed as a gain. I'm mystified by those who think that.

No one on this forum has said that...

[indycool]

In rereading the whole thread, luke, you're right, although some have seemed to consider it pretty minor. I HAVE read on other fora those with a "good riddance, Ford" 'tude. I stand corrected here.

[luke]

Originally Posted by indycool

In rereading the whole thread, luke, you're right, although some have seemed to consider it pretty minor. I HAVE read on other fora those with a "good riddance, Ford" 'tude. I stand corrected here.

I think I know which forum you mean, and "good riddance" after what Ford has given Champ Car is petty IMHO...

[indycool]

Hey, we agree on one!

[luke]

Lol.

[norman-normal]

Ford was doing great everywhere but the US, over all, however, lost $12B because of the steep decline of the truck and SUV which was a greater % of Fords business then GM's. Ford was forced to take a $17b loan to reorganize; the lenders are not fond of OW racing.

KK plans to capitalize on the Cosworth name in the auto after market: they sell oil a lot of engine racing and rally parts for Ford and many other manufactures worldwide. If no one steps up to the plate, the cosworth name will figure prominently on the cars and advertising. The only question is: how much money has KK got? can he sustain the loss of Ford Bucks and push Cosworth new products development enough to capitalize on the advertising? Stay tuned.

[gttouring]

Originally Posted by mayhem

Toyota could take their own advice when looking at their F1 programme then...

so true!
but TRD, USA and TTE GmBH are so different any way.
shame on toyota really- now they are going to out spend everyone in NASCAR

[JohnSSC]

Ford LOST $12.5 Billion in 2006. Some analysts are predicting that Ford will file a Chapter 11 by 2008 or 2009 at the latest.

To expect Ford to continue a relationship that devotes any resources to something that is not going to bring a return right now is silly. At this point, one wonders what level of support NASCAR will continue to get, but I digress.

I find it interesting here that after reviling Toyota and Honda for what "they did to CC/CART" these are among the first two companies to be nominated to replace Ford. So are our memories that short? Honda money is evil when it is associated with IRL but would be ok if they came back?

There is a serious issue when you lose not one but both of your Title Sponsors in the space of a few months. If this is not a wake-up call I don't know what it will take - perhaps YouTube clips showing them padlocking the doors of race teams might get the message across.

No, I am not saying the demise of either series is imminent, BUT, this is not a positive.

[paul-collins]

I've never understood why people would say that Honda is evil. I've always admired their desire for competition, and their engineering prowess. Toyota I'm not so fond of - I wasn't fond of them when they were in CART, and I certainly don't care for them now. (I've always felt that they bought their accolades rather than earned them - remember them poaching Ganassi and claiming to be "defending champions?")

Hyundai would be a great addition to any series, but their management structure is pretty much irrelevant to the direction of the company (unless they're part of the oligarchy). The family decides, and they're right now a bit distracted by some legal issues, so they won't be going racing - anywhere - anytime soon.

As I said before, what's the benefit of having one manufacturer badging the engines at this point? Ford's presence was a legacy of the engine competition days, and so it was admirable in a "loyalty" sort of sense. I just don't see the ROI for a new manufacturer coming in by themselves to badge the engines. They could still be a sponsor and gain something that way, but the engines themselves would be irrelevant to the overall package IMO.

[Snrub]

I think there's definately some benefit from the engines being badged for a certain manufacturer. While WE all know they're just badges, we account for a small number of the overall fans. I have gone to the Detroit Autoshow the last few years and its funny to hear the general public's comments and perception. I couple years ago this guy was with some friends (mixed gender) and they were looking at the Mazda Renesis (rotary) engine display. He pointed to the alternator and said "that's the turbo." His friends nodded and said "ahh." (for those that don't know, the engine has no turbo to begin with and pretty much anything with a hose connected to it might have made more sense to be "the turbo")

Most people are going to have a positive impression of the manufacturer who's name is on the engine cover, particularly if the announcers, etc. play it up a bit. Most people would be impressed because of the speed, etc. and it creates a positive association with the brand. IMO Ford needed that perception because that's a weakness and people who might normally buy imports have a poor impression of the brand. I think its a different demographic than the people who cheer for GM, Ford or Dodge in Nascar. Those people probably don't have a poor impression of the brand.

Times of trouble are not the time to cut marketing efforts. I suspect it was more that they didn't feel that they were getting the returns from CC. Ford has some signs of life. Edge is a home run and should generate some profits. The new Focus stinks, but it is so low margin they can't make money off of it anyway. Unfortunately while the Fusion is great, but there's no margin. F-150 and Super Dutys are high profit vehicles and very good. They need to continue to cut some capacity to keep their costs in line and they can make some money off of them. They've revived Ranger, I suspect there is some profit to be made there because it uses early-mid 80s design and they can't keep them on the dealer lots right now. Explorer and Sport Track are now niche vehicles, but I don't think they have to be unprofitable. Basically all that's left is 500 and Freestyle and they're probably losing on them due to the volume. Lincoln and Mercury are slowly coming back to life so hopefully they can be a source of profit. In general there are going to be big losses right now due to writing stuff off.

Here's an intersting article on the subject of Ford and CC: http://www.thestar.com/Sports/article/174750

[mac]

Originally Posted by paul-collins

Toyota I'm not so fond of - I wasn't fond of them when they were in CART, and I certainly don't care for them now. (I've always felt that they bought their accolades rather than earned them - remember them poaching Ganassi and claiming to be "defending champions?")

I've gotta tell you - Toyota, like any manufacturer, has to justify every dollar they spend in motorsport, or any other area.

I laugh at suggestions that they "buy accolades" - if they are in racing, they are in it because they think it is worthwhile, not because they want to make another purchase.

As racing fans, I would have thought you would be a fan of a company that is happy to sink a stack of mulah into racing.

[JohnSSC]

There is always a place for manufacturers in racing. Keeping the tail from wagging the dog is the trick.

My amusement here comes from reading a couple of years worth of threads where Toyota/Honda supposedly ruined everything and now Toyota/Honda have become the solution. Perhaps it is my rather twisted sense of irony, but it just tickles my guano to read these statements!

Getting back to topic (although the Ford discussion is truly interesting - how do you go from mega profits to mega losses...), one poster noted that, essentially, everything is fine as the 5-year plan is rolling right along as if, somehow, losing both title sponsors was not only anticipated but desirable.

This reminds me of General Custer's last (verifiable) words. As the 7th Calvary was about to head down toward the Indian's encampment, he turned to his troopers and yelled: "We've got 'em now, boys!!"

Yep, everything was completely under control at that moment and victory was at hand...George was just missing a few small pieces of information...

My point here is that there was not and is not a line of potential title sponsors waiting out there for either series. However minimal the support may have been and no matter how great the support may have been the bottom line is that now for CC there is no title sponsor support.

[paul-collins]

Originally Posted by mac

I've gotta tell you - Toyota, like any manufacturer, has to justify every dollar they spend in motorsport, or any other area.

I laugh at suggestions that they "buy accolades" - if they are in racing, they are in it because they think it is worthwhile, not because they want to make another purchase.

As racing fans, I would have thought you would be a fan of a company that is happy to sink a stack of mulah into racing.

Well, I'm not. Toyota's history of spending on motorsports shows a lot of wrecked series - largely because Toyota brings so much to bear on the subject.

They plunder the motorsports landscape with clear-cut* techniques.

The only place there's fiscal room for that sort of investment is F1; witness the grumbling of non-Toyota teams in NASCAR as the prices get driven up...

*by this I mean to make a comparison to logging practices