MSA Radio Frequency 169.3375

[NICK ALLISON]

I heard a rumour that shortly ,the MSA is not re - licensing the 169.3375 frequency used at most circuits.Any information on this?

[JimW]

Nick

My information suggests that this frequency has never been 'licensed' by the MSA. Much embarrassment when this sunk in only recently. I suspect that the rumour only reflects a subtle and low key attempt to duck away from the issue. I guess that mention will disappear from the Blue Book and people will walk around denying all knowledge of any use of this frequency.

What happens then I don't know.

All of our radio communications need dragging into the latter half of the 20th century anyway and perhaps this will be an incentive.

Regards

Jim

[rescue dude]

That was how i thought it was Jim but i knew someone like your good self would be certain of it.

[JimW]

Not certain but it was from a usually reliable source.

Jim

[NICK ALLISON]

Jim.Thanks for the info.

[gachjoel]

So if the MSA are denying any knowledge of the 169 frequency,will that mean that each circuit will become responsible for the licence of the radio`s they use on circuit ?

[DWA]

Think it may have something to do with the licence fees and how they are calculated changing next year. Costs for those who use a lot of airtime are increasing substantially. The cost of the licence that the company I am involved with is increasing from £440 per annum to £1140. Based on useage, frequency, number of radios in use etc.

[gachjoel]

With rates like that i can see a lot more circuits sticking to using telephones from marshals post.
But if you hire the radio`s in,do you still need to hold a licence or does that come under the company hiring them out to you ?

[Magnet]

Originally Posted by gachjoel

So if the MSA are denying any knowledge of the 169 frequency,will that mean that each circuit will become responsible for the licence of the radio`s they use on circuit ?

This is the case now, we are already responsible for the licensing of our circuit radios and I suspect that the visiting clubs will be responsible for their own license when they take their own radios to the various circuits.

[archaic gold]

This thread raises quite a few interesting points, as always on 10/10ths!
If the MSA lose their right to use this frequency, then some other organisation could take over, and cause quite a few problems at Race/Motorsport events. At Brands Hatch we have been plagued for some 4+ years by a local "scrapyard" using our frequency (the MSA one), and telling us about 7 tons of non-ferrous, and what the yard workers are going to do on a Friday evening after work!!! And not just go to the chippy! The cynics amongst us have felt that they may have 'stolen?' some MSA chipped radios, or else acquired them on e-bay.
However, more seriously, it does seem that a firm move must be made by the MSA or Clubs to protect the frequency; IF.in fact this staement at the start of this thread is accurate.

[archaic gold]

Sorry about the BOLD type! The mouse ran away, and not a criticism of the originator of this thread!!!!

[JimW]

There are a number of misconceptions here. Even if the MSA had any rights to use this frequency (which seems doubtful), it has certainly never had exclusive rights.

The local scrap yard has just as much right and, assuming they have actually paid for their use, considerably more. Frequencies like this are not given out for exclusive use - this bit of the radio spectrum is far too congested for such luxury.

Unlicensed use of a wireless transmitter is a criminal offence. Apart from any penalty imposed by the courts; all equipment may be seized by the regulatory authority. Just ask the club based in the North West about that!

There will be no "protection" of that frequency; my guess is that a number of people will have to start shelling out some money.

Or, as I said above, we could begin to move forward to newer technology (1990s say) and get better service, including protection from overhearing and effective exclusive use.

Regards

Jim

[JimW]

Originally Posted by gachjoel

With rates like that i can see a lot more circuits sticking to using telephones from marshals post.
But if you hire the radio`s in,do you still need to hold a licence or does that come under the company hiring them out to you ?

Almost always comes within the hire charge if we are talking short term. After all the hire company is not going to connive with you in avoiding the payment, is it?

Regards

Jim

[Circuitmarshal]

With our MSA Safety & Medical radios for Rally use, the MSA hold the licence we as a club or group, pay them for the right to use it.
Could this not work with circuits?
A lot of us own our own radios at £200 a time, so with the amount out there on that frequency if it's going to cost by amount of units in use then I don't think there will be that many on rally's in the future.

[Peter Harding]

Went into this a few years ago and again recently. My understanding is:
MSA did have exclusive use of this freq until about 10 years ago when the cost was considered prohibitive (not sure whether they continued to pay for the Rally freq)
After that all circuits AND clubs could licence that freq and most did. Circuits for local exclusive use and clubs for nationwide non-exclusive. It also meant that some other users just outside the circuits exclusive area could also use it and cause some inconvenience.
Recently the Agency has told clubs that they will no longer allow national non-exclusive licence.
On asking, it seems that clubs can still use the freq at circuits with the permission of the local licence holder (i e the circuit)

[Peter Harding]

If someone doesn'tr ensure that the circuits DO keep the freq then clubs will have to use whatever freq the circuit does licence and will have to obtain equipment on that freq and not use their own radios. Same applies for Ambulances and Rescue units.
If this happens I guess the circuits will supply radios as Silverstone and Donington do now. Any non-local Amb/Rescue will have to use hand-helds which is not ideal.
I have asked MSA to take control of this so I am keeping my fingers crossed.

[Simon S]

LOL!

this is quote funny really...

Just looking at my own 'Business Radio (UK General)' Licence I have the right to use 169.0875 and 169.3125MHz (along with several other low/mid/high band and UHF frequencies)

I have held this for some time now, it get's renewed every thrid year, and cost's peanuts (as in under £100).

Cleary, I do not have exclusive rights to these, however, this also means that nobody else has either. This has been the case for many years, never did understand how the MSA could claim such?

[Peter Harding]

The UK General Licence (previously called PBR) was introduced over 5 years ago to replace the need for individual freq for lots of different users. This was offered to clubs then as the agency didn't really understand that we needed to have 169.3375 to fit in with circuits/amb/rescue etc.
Although we declined to change we (my club) added this UK General to allow us to use other admin freq.
It was useful last week at Mallory when interferrrence on the base from other distant users was disrupting so we all changed to 169.0875.
Over several years I have never bumped into some other organisation using one of the UK Gen frequencies.
Still think that a motor racing emergency frequency is desirable and something MSA should take the lead on.

[Clive]

Originally Posted by Peter Harding

Still think that a motor racing emergency frequency is desirable and something MSA should take the lead on.

So why don't they? Given the overall amount of money spent in a year on motor racing, it'd be less than peanuts. Hardly rocket science, is it?

[JimW]

Originally Posted by Clive

So why don't they? Given the overall amount of money spent in a year on motor racing, it'd be less than peanuts. Hardly rocket science, is it?

My guess would be that they shudder at all the extra administrative work involved. If the MSA take on the licence there are two issues:

• Recovering the cost
• Keeping a record of the sub-users of the licence

They currently do this for the frequencies used by rallies. Each of us (individual or club) who is issued with a call-sign has to pay the MSA £5 per year per set and update the contact information and sign a splendidly bureaucratic declaration. I know that this is a quite disproportionate amount of effort, perhaps because we resent paying the £5 (I do) and also because only a small proportion of marshals are good at returning forms. (In this case I exempt the MSA from criticism, their organisation is sound.)

I can well imagine that the second of these factors would weigh heavily on their minds.

Regards

Jim