[Tech Issue] 2011 Pirelli tyres

[Adam43]

Originally Posted by Sodemo

Remember back during the tyre war era, ...

era!

[Bononi]

Originally Posted by chunterer

If the following cars tyres do go off quickly then that will surely create some overtaking possibilities for the next guy along?

And, if there's a train of cars following a slowcoach, then I imagine that train will start to trip over one another in frustration which will create some excitement in itself.

These tyres not lasting very long will be a good thing for TV.

What a reality show !

[Marbot]

Originally Posted by Bononi

What a reality show !

As Martin Whitmarsh put it, the job of the tyre supplier is a "thankless task".

They can supply tyres that last forever or tyres that last a few laps.

The reality is that neither extreme nor anything in between will please everyone.

All we do know is that Pirelli were asked to make these tyres, and maybe the reality is that they have achieved their design brief.

[wnut]

Originally Posted by chunterer

If the following cars tyres do go off quickly then that will surely create some overtaking possibilities for the next guy along?

And, if there's a train of cars following a slowcoach, then I imagine that train will start to trip over one another in frustration which will create some excitement in itself.

These tyres not lasting very long will be a good thing for TV.

So driving talent will be a real determinant! Not!
Great the true era of the pay drivers has arrived!
Complete lack of talent will be rewarded on a regular basis.

Still think that passing will be the real problem though. Isn't there a designated area of operation only on the main straight, so the passing option will happen once a lap and will either be a blow by or not at all.

It has to be more interesting than it was, but still not motor racing.

[Spritle]

Lewis thinks they suck too: http://en.espnf1.com/mclaren/motorsp...ory/42407.html

The only folks that will be happy this season, (beside Marbot) will be the 62,000 Koreans that get cheap seats.

[Marbot]

Originally Posted by Spritle

Lewis thinks they suck too: http://en.espnf1.com/mclaren/motorsp...ory/42407.html

The only folks that will be happy this season, (beside Marbot) will be the 62,000 Koreans that get cheap seats.

Lewis thinks they suck because the McLaren sucks, although Button had no complaints.

It would be interesting to hear your suggestion for a 'spec' tyre. Careful now.

[Marbot]

Originally Posted by wnut

It has to be more interesting than it was, but still not motor racing.

If it's not interesting, it's not motor racing.

[wnut]

Originally Posted by Spritle

Lewis thinks they suck too: http://en.espnf1.com/mclaren/motorsp...ory/42407.html

The only folks that will be happy this season, (beside Marbot) will be the 62,000 Koreans that get cheap seats.

"The first run - I didn't think I was pushing very hard - and the tyres were finished after nine laps, down to the canvas." Lewis Hamilton.

Dare we mention wear now?

[chunterer]

Originally Posted by wnut

So driving talent will be a real determinant! Not!
Great the true era of the pay drivers has arrived!
Complete lack of talent will be rewarded on a regular basis.

It has to be more interesting than it was, but still not motor racing.

At least one of your first 3 statements has long been a factor in F1 unfortunately.

None of the 3 statements has any real bearing on the tyre situation though.

[Marbot]

Originally Posted by wnut

"The first run - I didn't think I was pushing very hard - and the tyres were finished after nine laps, down to the canvas." Lewis Hamilton.

Dare we mention wear now?

We can mention it with regards to McLarens car. Red Bull, Ferrari, STR, Renault, Sauber and Williams have no such problems (See lap times on page 18).

[Sodemo]

I cant help but think that the McLaren is just a too long a wheelbase to be quick.

[Marbot]

Originally Posted by Sodemo

I cant help but think that the McLaren is just a too long a wheelbase to be quick.

Well there appears to be something amiss (probably a lack of downforce) if it's chewing its tyres up faster than any other car. Could be a bit too late to be making any drastic changes to the cars chassis.

[wnut]

Originally Posted by chunterer

At least one of your first 3 statements has long been a factor in F1 unfortunately.

None of the 3 statements has any real bearing on the tyre situation though.

Inconsistent tyres do not reward racing talent! They penalise racing/dicing and reward a preservation parade by artificially promoting backmarkers up the order, making it easy to employ pay drivers!

[bjohnsonsmith]

Originally Posted by Sodemo

I cant help but think that the McLaren is just a too long a wheelbase to be quick.

Interesting you should mention that, I was thinking the same thing. I also wonder how much the wheelbase has to do with the tyre wear experienced by Lewis Hamilton?

[Wims]

I think it has probably more to do with LHs driving style than anything else.

And its pretty obvious that adding high wear tyres to F1 will penalise the top drivers, thats the whole point. If they benefitted the top drivers the race outcomes would become more predictable, ala MS early 2000s, just driving off into the distance. It would be very bad for F1 if they introduced regulations that benefitted the top drivers / teams more than it benefitted the less talented drivers / smaller teams.

[Marbot]

Originally Posted by Wims

I think it has probably more to do with LHs driving style than anything else.

I think that it's currently more to do with the McLaren's lack of downforce than anything else.

Originally Posted by Wims

And its pretty obvious that adding high wear tyres to F1 will penalise the top drivers, thats the whole point. If they benefitted the top drivers the race outcomes would become more predictable, ala MS early 2000s, just driving off into the distance. It would be very bad for F1 if they introduced regulations that benefitted the top drivers / teams more than it benefitted the less talented drivers / smaller teams.

I think that it will probably hamper the cars rather than the drivers. And yes, no one wants to see Schumacher driving off into the distance with a highly optimized car any more. Although it would seem that some still want as few variables as possible in order that the races become more predictable.

[stripedcat]

Originally Posted by Sodemo

I cant help but think that the McLaren is just a too long a wheelbase to be quick.

I'd imagine that would make the McLaren a bit of handful around Monaco, where a short wheelbase is what you need around there.

[neiltb]

monaco is just 1 race in 18 or 19. i would happily design a dog for 1 race if it was awesome in the rest (not that the McLaren looks like it'll be awesome anywhere.

[Marbot]

General consensus is that the McLaren lacks downforce.

[Sodemo]

If you were to pick a corner type and say right "this is what we will be turning left or right around this year", 20-30 years ago it would have been, flat out sweeping fast turns. If you were to say today, I would say it was "tight 2nd gear corners". There has to be more slow corners now in F1 than there were decade or more back. Shorter cars like slow corners.

[phoenix]

Originally Posted by Sodemo

If you were to pick a corner type and say right "this is what we will be turning left or right around this year", 20-30 years ago it would have been, flat out sweeping fast turns. If you were to say today, I would say it was "tight 2nd gear corners". There has to be more slow corners now in F1 than there were decade or more back. Shorter cars like slow corners.

Slower corners also mean less downforce - therefore more tyre wear.......

[Marbot]

It's all about packaging though, isn't it? Where do you put the KERS? Sidepods or between the fuel tank and engine? Do you need it at all?

Red Bull have KERS too, but you wouldn't think so just by looking at that compared to the McLaren.

I also seem to remember that it was the cars that were better in the high speed corners that came out best last season.

A quote from Ross Brawn at the 2010 Barcelona GP.

Mercedes boss Ross Brawn broke down exactly how the Red Bull is setting such unreachable lap times in qualifying trim,

“We can see where they are quick,” he said.”Turn 9, the high speed corner, they are quite exceptional through. It’s high speed corners and this is a track where there are lots of high speed corners. That’s their strength."

[phoenix]

Indeed. Red Bull did not consider their car would be quickest at all the races in 2010 - just quickest at enough circuits over the season.....

Where the combination of corners at a given circuit did not suit their advantage, they expected to be second/third best to other teams.

[Marbot]

An interesting quote from Paul Hembrey at the last day of the Barcelona test:

"In terms of degradation that's a straight line relationship with wear. That has been much greater than what you will see when we get to the warm conditions. We could change. Ultimately, if the public perceive us as a bad product we can go more extreme and make a tyre that stays the same for the whole race, doesn't degrade, doesn't do anything.

We were asked to do something different, which is very challenging and far more difficult than to do it the other way. To make a tyre last 25 laps, which is what we're talking for a two-stop strategy - you want to force the changes for pitstops. If you take Canada from last year as an example, that's the type of thing we're trying to get. It's much easier to make a tyre that lasts all day."

If the public do perceive Pirelli to be a bad product, should they then take the easy way out?

[wnut]

Originally Posted by Wims

I think it has probably more to do with LHs driving style than anything else.

And its pretty obvious that adding high wear tyres to F1 will penalise the top drivers, thats the whole point. If they benefitted the top drivers the race outcomes would become more predictable, ala MS early 2000s, just driving off into the distance. It would be very bad for F1 if they introduced regulations that benefitted the top drivers / teams more than it benefitted the less talented drivers / smaller teams.

I would much rather see a great driver drive off into the distance than a mediocre player win a game of chance.

The FIA have already skewed all the legislation against the lesser teams by making aero so dominant and not allowing them to test which makes corporate knowledge and experience all important, both of which are difficult in a new team.


How many pay riders are there in MotoGP?

We all know why don't we?

I think Pirelli should bring the tyre that remains consistant throughout the race () and the FIA should get its regulations right!