Sportscar Racing's big chance?!?

[Hugewally]

Originally Posted by AU N EGL

Wally

A team PAID me to do the research for their sponsors. Not giving it up with out a big check.


and Tom listed quite a bit of info for you. Yet your still missing a some.


One of the major area differences are the sponsors hospitality areas, which are part of sponsorship and keeping sponsors business partners happy.


If you dont like, that is fine. Put together your own budget for a team and see how far you get.

No, Tom listed quite a bit of stuff for you.

[zac510]

AU N EGL, are the ALMS hospitality costs related to the different demographic of spectators? (different spectators causing different sponsors)

Does anybody know Tracy Krohn?

[AU N EGL]

Originally Posted by zac510

AU N EGL, are the ALMS hospitality costs related to the different demographic of spectators? (different spectators causing different sponsors)

Does anybody know Tracy Krohn?

Yes, very much so.

and no but have meet Mr Krohn, does that count?

[Hugewally]

So ALMS sponsor guests eat more than Grand-Am sponsor guests?

[zac510]

I understand they are higher income earners (or higher class if you like) and then one can presume they have greater demands..

[yamato]

Hospitality can be as small or as large as a sponsor likes,...... I fail to see how different levels of hospitality could make ALMS twice as expensive as GA?

Is that really what you are going to hang you hat on????? is that really what they paid you to find out?????

Are the operating costs more in ALMS? likely,..... twice as much?..... please!

[AU N EGL]

Originally Posted by yamato

Hospitality can be as small or as large as a sponsor likes,...... I fail to see how different levels of hospitality could make ALMS twice as expensive as GA?

Is that really what you are going to hang you hat on????? is that really what they paid you to find out?????

Are the operating costs more in ALMS? likely,..... twice as much?..... please!

More then that. what is the matter guys? Are you all democrats and want other ppl do work for you?



Look at wheels and tires for instance. Cost or lease of tires. Wheel costs, alumium vs Magniseum Wheels

How many sets per car per team?

Brake rotors Carbon Ceramic vs Iron rotor costs and use amount?

How long to parts last?

Personal, how many for each team and what are each crew members compensation?

You guys are thinking too small?

[Hugewally]

Has nothing to do with wanting other to do the work for anyone and its absurd to think so.

So far, you've only mentioned a few things that could affect the costs between ALMS & Grand-Am (rotors/tires).

[Zurbert82]

A current Grand-Am team owner posted on another forum that the cost of a Grand Am DP + spares is less than half of an LMP, and the cost of running a competitive DP for an entire season is 1/8 that of an LMP, or about $2 million. Is it me, or do those numbers seem wildly blown out of proportion?

[Speed-King]

Originally Posted by Zurbert82

A current Grand-Am team owner posted on another forum that the cost of a Grand Am DP + spares is less than half of an LMP, and the cost of running a competitive DP for an entire season is 1/8 that of an LMP, or about $2 million. Is it me, or do those numbers seem wildly blown out of proportion?

I read an interview with Jörg Bergmeister after his 2006 GA-championship-season, where he said that Krohn racing spent about 6 million $ for their two car effort. But Krohn is Krohn, so I guess 2 million for one car aren't too shabby either.

[AU N EGL]

Originally Posted by Zurbert82

A current Grand-Am team owner posted on another forum that the cost of a Grand Am DP + spares is less than half of an LMP, and the cost of running a competitive DP for an entire season is 1/8 that of an LMP, or about $2 million. Is it me, or do those numbers seem wildly blown out of proportion?

Nope that is right in there and compatible to what I found.

[alwayswatching]

From what I have heard, clearly the chassis & engine costs of DP v P1 or 2, are considerably different. The tire costs are cheaper, but not enormously. The equipment required to run a DP v P program simply cannot be night & day difference either, nor can the travel costs be any different for either series.........a rental car, plane ticket and hotel, meals, etc, are going to cost you the same no matter what. Maybe DP's don't need as many people to work on them being as they are somewhat basic in comparison, but I wouldn't think the total bill for a DP is millions less, and I'd have a guess that Wayne Taylor or Ganassis spends more than $2 mil as I would doubt it costs $16 mil to run an LMP car.

[Speed-King]

Repair-bills might be another issue. DPs don't have that many carbon fibre parts and from what I heard repairing them often involves a big hammer. Whereas in LMP spare-parts are probably a real budget-killer.

[skycafe]

Ok, on one page it is Hospitality, and on another it is carbon brakes...so, the hospitality meals in ALMS are being served on carbon disk platters? That has to be it!


Anyone have Clarke's email address at HRD, this sounds like fun, I want to be invited.

[Brolzy]

Originally Posted by TWK

Grand Am cars have none that I've been able to fine. As it's turned out, they don't stay competitive much longer either.

The AIM car that won twice this year is the original Ganassi car, so that's like 4+ years old (with updates, or course, as most race cars have over a period of time).

[TWK]

Originally Posted by AU N EGL

Nope that is right in there and compatible to what I found.

A shop? Both. Hauler? both. Travel? Both. Mechanics. Both. Tools? Both. Fuel? Both. Tires? Both. Pro drivers? Both. Entry fee? Both. Telephone? Both. PR releases? Both. Repairs? Both.

1/8th? Sorry, that doesn't come close to passing the smell test.

Try this: Operating cost, full season, 11 races, per car, team with Ferrari F430 GT in ALMS, $1.3 million.

So, therefore, complete operating cost for a Grand Am GT car for a 14 race schedule is....wait for it....$162,000?

There are those who have competed in both series, in GT and in Prototypes. They tell a different story than your "research."

[AU N EGL]

Originally Posted by TWK

A shop? Both. Hauler? both. Travel? Both. Mechanics. Both. Tools? Both. Fuel? Both. Tires? Both. Pro drivers? Both. Entry fee? Both. Telephone? Both. PR releases? Both. Repairs? Both.

1/8th? Sorry, that doesn't come close to passing the smell test.

Try this: Operating cost, full season, 11 races, per car, team with Ferrari F430 GT in ALMS, $1.3 million.

So, therefore, complete operating cost for a Grand Am GT car for a 14 race schedule is....wait for it....$162,000?

There are those who have competed in both series, in GT and in Prototypes. They tell a different story than your "research."

Then Please post what you found. Maybe some dollar figures side by side comparison for each as above?

Not just "both", This is where a big difference comes in. In these things you label "Both", there are large differences between the ALMS teams and GARR teams.

Teams use different amounts of tires per race week, ( cost of tires and wheels) Break this down further to the actully number of wheels and tires used.

Different size shops, different number of employees and salaries. Very large differences here between the two.

I was paid by a team's sponsor looking at each. They were very happy with my results.

This teams sponsor also contacted an Independent Media consultant too look at the exposure of teams in the ALMS and GARR. I dont know those results and may never find out.

[porsche45]

Originally Posted by AU N EGL

Please post what you found. Maybe some dollar figures side by side comparison for each as above?

C'mon, you first.

[TWK]

Originally Posted by Zurbert82

A current Grand-Am team owner posted on another forum that the cost of a Grand Am DP + spares is less than half of an LMP, and the cost of running a competitive DP for an entire season is 1/8 that of an LMP, or about $2 million. Is it me, or do those numbers seem wildly blown out of proportion?

Matt Connelly, right?

[GT-Eins]

Originally Posted by Zurbert82

A current Grand-Am team owner posted on another forum that the cost of a Grand Am DP + spares is less than half of an LMP, and the cost of running a competitive DP for an entire season is 1/8 that of an LMP, or about $2 million. Is it me, or do those numbers seem wildly blown out of proportion?

Hm- obviously the thread has evolved from "Sportscars big chance" into "ALMS vs NASCAR (uups ) Grand AM-costs". Maybe the moderators may split it.

As to the last topic. I have the impression that statements like the above sometimes mix up "running costs" with "purchasing costs of a new car".
Yes, the statement may be true for the latter. Yes, ALMS might be in General more expensive. But with more you may get more (TV, sponsor, competition - choose yourself), otherwise there wouldn´t be teams flocking from one scene to the other. Currently I have the impression that the direction was in the last months more heading in favour of the ALMS.

Please do not take me wrong: GA has in my eyes still a justification in economic reasons to give teams which are not able to afford an ALMS-season an valid alternative to still run a season without a shutdown. Whether it is the kind of Machinery Fans want to see is a question of second order there.

As for the initial Topic:

F1 begins to loose its hype - which is generally good for the other Kinds of motorsports. ACO racing now attracts also manufacturers who can compare more open concepts (like Diesel vs. Bioethanol vs. Hybrid vs. Petrol) within a given set of regulations. Unlike in other series the manufacturers are backed by a large basis of privateers, who form impressive grids of stunning machinerys. This is what impresses more and more people bored by the sportscar-pilot trainee-series formaly known as F1 (sorry in being maybe a bit of too ironic here ).

[Zurbert82]

Originally Posted by TWK

Matt Connelly, right?

Hmm?

[AU N EGL]

Originally Posted by porsche45

C'mon, you first.

Cant, Non-Disclosure agreement.

[TWK]

Originally Posted by AU N EGL

Wally

A team PAID me to do the research for their sponsors. Not giving it up with out a big check.


and Tom listed quite a bit of info for you. Yet your still missing a some.


One of the major area differences are the sponsors hospitality areas, which are part of sponsorship and keeping sponsors business partners happy.


If you dont like, that is fine. Put together your own budget for a team and see how far you get.

Cheers back. With the help of participants in ALMS (and some who have participated in Grand Am, but all that later), your wish is granted...a published, detailed, complete study of the Cost of Racing in the American Le Mans Series.

To be frank, it seems to make your assertions of double the cost over Grand Am bunk. But, of course, since you have only made vague assertions and provide no data, I guess we can conclude that there is none. It was your idea to challenge others to provide information, yet there has been none at all forthcoming from you.

It's quite clear to me that what you have claimed is nonsensical. Have data? It's your turn.

By the way, it's quite ridiculous to point to sponsor hospitality costs as a principal difference between the racing series. There is simply no difference in the need for teams to seek out, obtain, entertain, and keep sponsors. There is no evidence at all that there is any less "care and feeding of sponsors in Grand Am than there is in ALMS. There is, in fact, very limited hospitality spending in ALMS since about 2000-2001, and very much less than other professional series, including IRL, and any of the various NASCAR-sanctioned series, including trucks...and Grand Am.

Besides the "cost of racing" is simply that. Shop, employees, cars, tires, haulers, travel, drivers, managers, technicians.

The rules here prohibit me from giving you a link. I'm sure you know where to look. If not, I'm sure someone will give you some help.

[Dani Filth]

i don't think it's a rules breach.. it's on topic too . so here it is
http://lastturnclub.com/index.php?op...tpage&Itemid=1

[TWK]

Well...that covers the cost questions.

How about opportunities for sports car series to "step up" in tough times (the original question here).

Unfortunately, ALMS (and Grand Am) are suffering as much as anyone else in terms of sponsorships, availability of loans, and income overall - both series and individual teams.

That's a topic in itself. However, on the "cashing an opportunity" side of the equation, a team expressed to me that - for those not going to Le Mans - the huge ALMS schedule gap right in the middle of the season costs more money in sponsorship exposure loss than it saves in event cost.

Since then, there are have been two happenings that seem to open a "window of opportunity," the loss of F1 (and an open date "in the window") at Montreal, and second, an expansion of the window as a result of the cancelling of the Le Mans test weekend.

Will IMSA make a move? Probably not - the impact of the economy there may already be too much to allow any such flexibility