Sportscar Racing's big chance?!?

[Speed-King]

A thread in another forum pointed me to this idea:

With the steady influx of new manufacturers into prototype racing and the rumours about even more factories starting new Le Mans projects, ACO style sportscar racing seems to be right now - even in the face of the current economic crisis - in the best position to become the dominant form of auto racing in the next decade.
At the moment all other major racing series seem to be handicapped by their weak or megalomaniac leadership: NASCAR jumped the shark with the COT, US-Openwheel will take years to recover from the split, F1 is at the mercy of the increasingly senile Mosley and Ecclestone and European Touring Car racing is either held hostage by the manufacturers (WTCC) or has left the realm of reason all together long ago (DTM). WRC isn't looking too good, either.
So it seems possible that prototype racing could surpass all these series in the next decade in terms of popularity and manufacturer interest; however it seems equally possible, that sportscar racing falls back into the old cycle of growth - spiraling costs - and destruction as it did so many times before.

So what would be necessary to turn sportscar racing into the no1 form of motorsport, what measures should be taken to ensure its survival and would you even want to see sportscar racing becoming as popular as F1 is nowadays?

[Hugewally]

Have Angelina Jolie as the spokes person.

[yamato]

Originally Posted by Hugewally

Have Angelina Jolie as the spokes person.

Ahhh the sage words of the hugemeister!

[Subaru_WRX_STi]

I agree with you about the fact that sports car racing is better than other forms of racing, and frankly what the ACO can do is to decrease the gap between diesels and gasoline, and between works teams and privateers, in GT a semi works or even a completely private team can manage to beat a full factory effort wheras in prototypes it will never going to happen now !!!

also lets keep the things as they are, 3 LM series plus FIA GT, thats fine for now, and please not a World Championship, costs are already high, so 3 series for each continent, each one have its own identity and competitors !

[AU N EGL]

Originally Posted by Speed-King

So what would be necessary to turn sportscar racing into the no1 form of motorsport, what measures should be taken to ensure its survival and would you even want to see sportscar racing becoming as popular as F1 is nowadays?

more pit babes ? or Gride Girls?

OK OK

1. Manufacture involvement and the technology transfer to consumer cars is VERY VERY APPEALING for manufactures.

2. Strong independent teams,

3. Sorry guys shorter races. 1000 KM races LOOSE sponsors and spectators. Let alone TV cost are too high to show the whole race.

Therefor the 2:45 min as the ALMS has for MOST of the races. a few 12 hours, and the LM24 and Spa 24. ( would love to see a 24 on this side of the pond. too. )

Personally I like the idea of 500 KM races. ~ 320 miles or about a 4 hour race, with pre-race show for TV.

4. 12-15 races / year on each side of the pond. with the top teams invited to the LM24

5. For the Fans as ALMS does is a must. OPEN paddocks for fans the days prior to the race.

and back to Angelina Jolie as the spokes person is a MUST.

[JAG]

Carry on as is, let F1 and NASCAR worry about their own future.

[zac510]

Arguably the introduction of too many big manufacturers spoils things as their marketing, greed and off-track competition takes over and they either eventually try to influence the rule book or exploit it with excess spending to the detriment of the less wealthy.

I think the current ACO regulations have taken this into account quite well, for example with the privateer P2 category. The stability for several years has built a strong base and the common rules (mostly) across the pond and GT series mean there is a healthy amount of cars all eligible for LM24.

Overall a more public promotion could work well, like it did for Silverstone with Peugeot's input, but at the same time it's great to have sportscars outside the petty fanboi-ism of soccer/football and F1.

Also, Autosport had an article this week about WRC potentially having more GrpA cars than every in 2009 due to the 'value for money' of the WRC and M-sport being able to offer customer cars for good prices.

[thebear]

Originally Posted by zac510

Overall a more public promotion could work well, like it did for Silverstone with Peugeot's input, but at the same time it's great to have sportscars outside the petty fanboi-ism of soccer/football and F1.

Unfortunately that is not likely to happen in the near future here in the US. Attendance by "ordinary folks' is not likely to increase. There is a `hard core' of enthusiasts for each series that know what is going on, where and when it will happen.

My conversations with the Motorsports Editor of the local "Fish Wrapper" that passes for a newspaper have indicated that if a story does not initiate with the Associated Press wire service it has very little chance of being printed in the paper. This is despite the fact that I live ~125 miles from Sebring.

Advertising is the only answer to increasing attendance but it must be placed by the promotor or the track. Exceptions to this are found for the Rolex 24 at Daytona where the local paper will send reporters to gather information and there is auto dealer advertising support. In addition, it is the beginning of "Speed Weeks" which conclude with NA$CAR's Daytona 500. When the Classic Sports Car Club (UK) came to Daytona a year ago I alerted the Daytona paper and the event got some coverage. Similarly, the St.Pete GP (ALMS/IRL) enjoys the promotional and advertising efforts of the local electric utility company.

Amateur racing is alive and well but hampered by insurance costs. If non-members of the organization are charged for admission the liabaity insurance is prohibitive.

[Aslak Vind]

Very interesting.

An ignorant question, where are the US sportscar racingscene with the garagistes. Or the independents, compared with LMES which also are in uncharted waters, however still with independent prototype and GT teams?

[AU N EGL]

Originally Posted by thebear

Unfortunately that is not likely to happen in the near future here in the US. Attendance by "ordinary folks' is not likely to increase. There is a `hard core' of enthusiasts for each series that know what is going on, where and when it will happen.

and with fuel prices dropping, the new oil discovery, but not drilled, and not the oil shale, in Montana, and the western Dakotas, northern Wyoming, this past two years. Will there still be a need for hybrid powered vehicles?

YES Hybrids are the "in thing" and so are electric vehicles, for now. So time and public onion well tell.

PPL are concerned about the economy, jobs and shrinking 401ks to think about motorsports. Even NASCAR spectators are down.

[AU N EGL]

Originally Posted by Aslak Vind

Very interesting.

An ignorant question, where are the US sportscar racingscene with the garagistes. Or the independents, compared with LMES which also are in uncharted waters, however still with independent prototype and GT teams?

Independent Prototype and GT ( plus Koni Challenge) teams are in Grand Am for the most part. Not in the ALMS.

Then Speed World GT and Touring is a step above Grand AM, but the races are only 50 min long. Where Grand AM is 3 to 6 hours for the most part. Teams Love the 3 to 6 hour races. TV loves the 50 min races. Sponsors Love TV coverage.

[Subaru_WRX_STi]

Originally Posted by AU N EGL

Independent Prototype and GT ( plus Koni Challenge) teams are in Grand Am for the most part. Not in the ALMS.

so you have to be a semi works or have a factory support to compete in ALMS ? no place for true privateers

[Speed-King]

Originally Posted by Subaru_WRX_STi

so you have to be a semi works or have a factory support to compete in ALMS ? no place for true privateers

To be competitive, yes. There are some privateers in the prototype ranks like Intersport, Autocon or now Corsa, but you know what kind of results they get...

[AU N EGL]

Originally Posted by Speed-King

To be competitive, yes. There are some privateers in the prototype ranks like Intersport, Autocon or now Corsa, but you know what kind of results they get...

Speed King is correct

ALMS cars are much faster then the GRAND AM GT cars. Yes they are different configurations slightly. Porsche 997 RSR for example.

Costs to run ALMS ( good estimate) are double per race over Grand AM,

Prototypes are huge difference between P2 and Grand AM costs and speeds.

GRAND AM has some but not much or a contingency.

a WELL FUNDED Privateer team could be competitive. But 3 to 5 million per year plus equipment costs. Then buying a competitive chassis / engine package and getting a Mich tire contact.

[johntt]

Originally Posted by AU N EGL

3. Sorry guys shorter races. 1000 KM races LOOSE sponsors and spectators. Let alone TV cost are too high to show the whole race.

Therefor the 2:45 min as the ALMS has for MOST of the races. a few 12 hours, and the LM24 and Spa 24. ( would love to see a 24 on this side of the pond. too. )

Personally I like the idea of 500 KM races. ~ 320 miles or about a 4 hour race, with pre-race show for TV.

4. 12-15 races / year on each side of the pond. with the top teams invited to the LM24

Makes sense.

The ALMS has Sebring, Petit and the two 4 hour races at Laguna and Elkhart. They have a couple of sprint races, Long Beach and St Pete, and then it has a lot of compromise races at 2h45 min long which have the urgency of a sprint but the need for preservation/economy of an endurance.

LMS would raise its profile signifiantly by keeping the big 1000km races (Monza, Spa, Silverstone, Nurburgring) having a sprint race (Norisring 200 miles) and having some 2hr 45 min races like the ALMS has, possibly alongside something like DTM.

[Hugewally]

Originally Posted by AU N EGL

Costs to run ALMS ( good estimate) are double per race over Grand AM,

Really? So ALMS team members eat twice as much as Grand-Am team members? Twice the hotel rooms, twice the gas, twice the car rentals, etc, etc...

What happens when Grand-AM has more races?

[AU N EGL]

Originally Posted by Hugewally

Really? So ALMS team members eat twice as much as Grand-Am team members? Twice the hotel rooms, twice the gas, twice the car rentals, etc, etc...

What happens when Grand-AM has more races?

Keep digging HW.

[Hugewally]

Show us some numbers to support your statement.

[zac510]

Maybe ALMS cars are twice as fast

[AU N EGL]

Originally Posted by zac510

Maybe ALMS cars are twice as fast

Faster yes.

Wally you can do your own research. You will learn more

If you don't like it, don't worry about it.

[TWK]

Originally Posted by AU N EGL

Faster yes.

Wally you can do your own research. You will learn more

If you don't like it, don't worry about it.

An assertion that the cost of a Grand Am season in any class is double that of an ALMS season in any class is so far into fantasy that it requires some documentation.

Huge points out a simple fact that you haven't overcome: costs that cannot vary significantly, first being the travel costs to races (though lodging costs will be higher, I admit, for the ALMS, because enough fans show up to allow increases in the area of the races).

Cost of a car? Original cost, less resale after retirement (ALMS race cars generally have a market - and value - Grand Am cars have none that I've been able to fine. As it's turned out, they don't stay competitive much longer either.)

Tires? Competitors in Grand Am said in thier own forums they are paying more for their spec tires. Grand Am decided to take a big fee from the supplier; that gets passed on to the competitors. Fuel? Please.

Entry Fees? Nope. That's not a big difference (and it's just about the only income the sanctioning body has in Grand Am,since it collects no track sanctioning fees, so not likely to be cut.)

As you can see, I'm struggling to find an area of cost that is significantly less. Im going to bet you can't find any either.

Now I'm going to try to help you:

If they will quit hiring pro drivers in Grand Am, they'd save money. Why did they start down that road, anyway, since it is antithetical to what they said they were trying to accomplish?

If you're going to have a spec tire, it should benefit the entrants, not just the supplier and the sanctioning body.

If you're not going to have pro drivers, why not prohibit teams from paying any more than 2 or 3 permanent crew? There are alway a bunch of strong backs willing to volunteer to go over the wall and change tires, aren't there? (Surprisingly some teams in both series operate like this - unfortunately, they are "bottom feeders," So...if we made everybody do that....) Or ban pro teams? Oh, wait, what is Grand Am going to do with Ganassi and Taylor? Or Penske at Daytona?

Unless someone can actually provide a rational description of places where costs to race in Grand Am are significantly lower, I'll continue to treeat it as marketing hype - or just plain fantasy.

As has been said, "Show me the money."

[Speed-King]

The limited testing in GA should help.
And it's not like the teams could make up for the lacking on-track time by windtunnel or 7-post testing, as these has to be approved by GA as well.

I also think that the number of tires a team in GA can use over a weekend is pretty low.

[Hugewally]

Originally Posted by AU N EGL

Wally you can do your own research. You will learn more

If you don't like it, don't worry about it.

Come on... You throw out the statement and don't back it up?

[AU N EGL]

Originally Posted by Hugewally

Come on... You throw out the statement and don't back it up?

Wally

A team PAID me to do the research for their sponsors. Not giving it up with out a big check.


and Tom listed quite a bit of info for you. Yet your still missing a some.


One of the major area differences are the sponsors hospitality areas, which are part of sponsorship and keeping sponsors business partners happy.


If you dont like, that is fine. Put together your own budget for a team and see how far you get.

[JAG]

If so many costs are equal, what is there stopping an ALMS GT2 Porsche team graduating to P2 with an RS Spyder, aside from actually buying the chassis?