JV slams Schuey - no one will remember him

[Jordi]

Originally Posted by karimbo

We could turn that around and say "Jacques only won when he had an invincible machine." good drivers are capable of winning races sometimes when their cars are not the best. Remeber Senna in a Toleman-Hart in Montecarlo: would JV had been able to deliver such a performance? MS's first win with Ferrari in Spain 1996. not to mention GILLES Villeneuve's races In Montecarlo 1981, Keke Rosberg's championship 1982 or Dallas 1984. JACQUES ONLY WINS IF HE HAS THE BEST CAR. AND ALMOST EVERYBODY CAN DO THAT.

Senna and Schumacher's wins you mention are wet races, which inevitably level out the conditions. I grant you that Jacques is not as good as in the wet, but I'm not so sure Schumacher would have won in a 1999 BAR-Supertec, or a Sauber.

Remember how MS outqualified ten year veteran Andrea DeCaesaris in 1991 at his first Grand Prix (without testing!!!!) ? And how he out qualified and out raced three times world champion Nelson Piquet two weeks later in Monza? The year before MS was racing Formula 3...

It's de Cesaris.
I grant you that too, but then again I never said Jacques was better than Michael. I only say Jacques isn't a fraud as you claim.

- long tirade about people not hiring JV -

Seeing Fisichella, well, Renault could have done worse than hire Villeneuve!
And Juan Pablo Montoya is another driver being paid not to drive... No one else is offering him anything, I guess they're stupid too.

I'm affraid that this judgement requires a much deeper knowledge of the person. Jordi, I don't know if you live in Catalunya, but where I live, we have a lot more intimate knowledge of the guy. I could names tens of people who crossed his path, and have a very different view of him...

I know what I know about him. The times I've met him he has been nice enough for me to have this opinion. Anyway. I guess since I live in Spain I know all about Alonso.

Let us not confuse personality and the power of money. Most drivers in the world, even the talented ones, have depended on sponsors to arrive where they are: MS had to pay to ride a Jordan, Alonso was helped by Telefonica, etc. JV is the only driver who had more power on his sponsors than his sponsors over him: when he started Formula 3 he was able to make Camel and Marlboro fight over to who was going to sponsor him. Then it took him around 5 races to be able TO QUALIFY HIS CAR ON THE GRID. His team mate Andrea Montermini finished 2nd in the championship and won Montecarlo the same year. (BTW in case you were wondering, JV did not qualify for Montecarlo either). In 1992 he was paid $300 000.00 just to race in Japanese formula3. In 1993, he was paid CAN$ 500 000.00 to RACE IN FORMULA ATLANTIC !!! Can you name me one driver, today, who has a salary to race in Formula Atlantic !! And he only managed to finish 3rd... JV was always able to toy with sponsorship. He could crash a car and be sure he had a brand new one the next race. Would his name have been Jacques Doe, do you think that would have been possible?

You are the one confusing personality and money. I simply said I like him because he has personality and you go on about how sponsors fought over him, which frankly the only relevance it has is for you to show your dislike for him. He had money, great for him. I guess if you don't sell your house and live on the road you're not worth of F1...

There again, I can give you the e-mail address OF ALL FRENCH CANADIAN JOURNALISTS. All of them. You will be able to ask them personally.

Give me the adresses of objective journalists.

That's why I like races in the rain: Gilles Villeneuve Montreal 1981. Senna in Montecarlo 1984 and Donington 1993. Schumacher in Spain 1996 or Spa 1997, and so many more. BTW Jordi, please name me one good race from Jacques in the rain. ( I'm ready to mail you a cheque for it. )

I know he's not great in the rain, but I guess it's Jacques' only flaw, since you seem to be pointing only at rainy races?

JV hate MS simply because Michael has something that he doesn't have: natural talent. Everybody knows that when JV won his title his car was a big factor. In inverted cars Michael would have been champion not at the last race but probably in Belgium already. even after winning the title, Jacques was not considered the best driver. (And that's why no one claims him today).

Michael Schumacher came into formula 1 by the back door: Bertrand Gachot was jailed in strange circumstances and MS (who had no money FOR F3000) jumped in modest Jordan car and impressed the world.

Jacques Villeneuve has always had the very best material: in F3, in formula Atlantic, Champ Car and at Williams. The red carpet was rolled out for him, always. He had it easy and that's why many people don't like him.
He came into Formula 1 by the grand door. And will have left it by the back door. Twice. After being oyt raced by Button, Heidfeld and even Massa.

It's hard to have better material in Atlantics or Champ Car when the chassis are very evenly matched. Also, if Team Green was such a strong team, why did they never win a CART championship again? It should have been a walk in the park for Franchitti or Tracy...
Not to mention that 1997 was a very competitive year. It was not a one team walk but not due to the inability of the drivers. There were tyres playing a factor. There was Renault leaving at the end of the year.
I guess the fact that Jacques is very easy on his tyres isn't important when Goodyear had severe problems at Montmeló and Budapest. No. The car drove itself, of course.


See, I admit I'm his fan, but you have to admit that you are stung since the day you raced him in karts and were ahead of him, yet despite being so much faster than Jacques Villeneuve, you are here losing your time with me and Jacques has been a CART champion, an Indy 500 winner and an F1 World Drivers' Champion.

Milli Vanilli were a fraud - Jacques is a champion.

[Peter Mallett]

Having read all of that I have to say that at least Millie Vanilli were entertaining!

Time to close methinks.

[karimbo]

1950

Giuseppe Farina

1951

Juan Manuel Fangio

1952

Alberto Ascari

1953

Alberto Ascari

1954

Juan Manuel Fangio

1955

Juan Manuel Fangio

1956

Juan Manuel Fangio

1957

Juan Manuel Fangio

1958

Mike Hawthorn

1959

Jack Brabham

1960

Jack Brabham

1961

Phil Hill

1962

Graham Hill

1963

Jim Clark

1964

John Surtees

1965

Jim Clark

1966

Jack Brabham

1967

Denny Hulme

1968

Graham Hill

1969

Jackie Stewart

1970

Jochen Rindt

1971

Jackie Stewart

1972

Emerson Fittipaldi

1973

Jackie Stewart

1974

Emerson Fittipaldi

1975

Niki Lauda

1976

James Hunt

1977

Niki Lauda

1978

Mario Andretti

1979

Jody Scheckter

1980

Alan Jones

1981

Nelson Piquet

1982

Keke Rosberg

1983

Nelson Piquet

1984

Niki Lauda

1985

Alain Prost

1986

Alain Prost

1987

Nelson Piquet

1988

Ayrton Senna

1989

Alain Prost

1990

Ayrton Senna

1991

Ayrton Senna

1992

Nigel Mansell

1993

Alain Prost

1994

Michael Schumacher

1995

Michael Schumacher

1996

Damon Hill

1997

Jacques Villeneuve

1998

Mika Hakkinen

1999

Mika Hakkinen

2000

Michael Schumacher

2001

Michael Schumacher

2002

Michael Schumacher

2003

Michael Schumacher

2004

Michael Schumacher

2005

Fernando Alonso

Out of this list, in 55 years, 7 have been signed by Schumacher. In a couple of months, maybe 8 out of 56. One seventh of all championships will have been won by one man. How could he possibly forgotten. Imagine a tennis player that would have won 1 out of 7 Wimbledon tournaments. Would he be forgotten? How on earth can JV say such a thing. DOES ANYONE IN THIS FORUM REALLY BELEIVE MS WILL BE FORGOTTEN?

[Peter Mallett]

Yes. I think I made that point on page 1.

[VilleneuveTracy]

Not to mention that 1997 was a very competitive year. It was not a one team walk but not due to the inability of the drivers. There were tyres playing a factor. There was Renault leaving at the end of the year.

This is what is conveniently igonred. The same people who say JV won only because of the car then turn around and praise Hakkinen and Alonso for winning WDC's in the best car in much less competitive seasons...

See, I admit I'm his fan, but you have to admit that you are stung since the day you raced him in karts and were ahead of him, yet despite being so much faster than Jacques Villeneuve, you are here losing your time with me and Jacques has been a CART champion, an Indy 500 winner and an F1 World Drivers' Champion.

You hit the nail on the head.

Karimbo, that list is very short. Only a few drivers have become WDC's. Maybe it takes some special talent to win a WDC?

[Jordi]

Originally Posted by Peter Mallett

Yes. I think I made that point on page 1.

In a rather shorter post too. I already knew all of Formula 1's world champions anyway...

[Bononi]

I forgot what I want to post....












Oh yeah.

THREAD CLOSED