[Tech Issue] Stefan and Campos illegal?

[Jamesy-18]

Hey guys,

Just a quick thought that I've had concerning these new teams. We know for 2010 that ALL teams have to BUILD their cars (which has had a bad effect on STR as they have to build a car for the first time) but this leads me to my query. Surely Stefan GP and Campos are not complying to the rules with this?

Stefan GP have reportedly bought the Toyota 2010 car, so they haven't built their own car....
Campos are having their's built by Dallara....

Whata re your thoughts on this? I certainly don't think Stefan are legal if it's the Toyota cars because Toyota have built them and (most likely) sold them to Stefan.

[Kidzer]

I think it'll be the case that Stefan GP will have purchase the IP of the Toyota '10 designs, not any physical cars - so they'll probably be alright.

As for Campos...its possible the F1 entry is some other legal entity that includes Campos and Dallara, so they're both under the same 'umbrella' if you will.

[duke_toaster]

All they need to do is own the IP, if I remember correctly. My issue with STR is a different one (owning two teams).

[johntt]

Campos are legal as they have subcontracted the design and construction of the car to Dallara.

If Dallara were offering the car as a customer chassis for any team to buy, then that would be illegal.

[duke_toaster]

Aren't Lola doing that with their design?

[jab]

As long as you own the IP, you can get anyone to build it for you. Toyota will be building and developing the Stefan but if Stefan own the rights, that's fine. Same for Campos, same for Lola if they want to flog theirs

The problem for Larrousse back in the early 1990s (1990, I think) when they lost their prize money was that they didn't own the IP

[ECW Dan Selby]

Originally Posted by Jamesy-18

Stefan GP have reportedly bought the Toyota 2010 car, so they haven't built their own car....
Campos are having their's built by Dallara....

Would that not have made the Brawn car illegal for 09 in that case?

Selby

[F.O.F.]

Basically the IP for a car can be bought and sold freely but only as long as one pair of hands has a hold of it at any one time. And just as Selby mentioned, if you applied your logic to brawn in '09 then they would be illegal, as would the up coming Mercedes and Sauber.

[Jamesy-18]

Originally Posted by ECW Dan Selby

Would that not have made the Brawn car illegal for 09 in that case?

Selby

No, because this particular rule wasn't enforced in 2009! If it was, how come Toro Rosso was allowed to race?

[Marbot]

Originally Posted by Jamesy-18

No, because this particular rule wasn't enforced in 2009! If it was, how come Toro Rosso was allowed to race?

STR were given special dispensation by the FIA to use the RedBull chassis to the end of 2009.

[jab]

The car itself was, as explained, a development version of Red Bull Racing's RB3. The Red Bull RB3 was designed by Adrian Newey, who earned a reputation as one of the most successful F1 designers with Championship-winning cars at both Williams and McLaren. In order for Red Bull Racing and Toro Rosso to use the chassis, Newey was employed by 'new' consortium named Red Bull Technology. This provided a loop-hole for STR around the prohibition of chassis sharing, as both teams were legally using a car developed by an 'independent' third party.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Toro_Rosso_STR2

[Marbot]

The simple fact is that STR will not be able to use RedBulls 2010 chassis regardless of where it is made.

[F.O.F.]

Originally Posted by Marbot

The simple fact is that STR will not be able to use RedBulls 2010 chassis regardless of where it is made.

I can't wait to see how they get on with it. They obviously can't unlearn the technical data of the last few years so it will be interesting to see how they develop from last years car.

[Marbot]

Originally Posted by F.O.F.

I can't wait to see how they get on with it. They obviously can't unlearn the technical data of the last few years so it will be interesting to see how they develop from last years car.

Same thing, but just a bit longer.

[Matador]

So is Stefan definitely on the grid, or did I miss something?

[F.O.F.]

Originally Posted by Marbot

Same thing, but just a bit longer.

Stefan are definitely not on the grid. Not this year anyway.

[AJLav]

The easy way to remember this is: If one team is running a car, another team can't.

RB got around this in the past with RB Technologies owning the car and "selling it to RB and STR. The new rules for 2010 and beyond close that possibility, thus STR will Design/build their own car and RB Tech will design and build the RB car.

Ferrari recently wanted to let another team run an additional Ferrari Chassis. FOTA or the FIA said no. (Ferrari have in the past lent knowledge and in some cases, parts/designs of cars to Sauber...)

Brawn got around this because they bought the rights to the Team and Cars for that 1 British Pound.... Ross then sold the rights and the cars to Mercedes for a little bit more.

As for who builds the car VS. legal/illegal, it is who owns the rights to the design, not who builds it that determines if it is legal or not. This is done in other forms of racing as well as F1. Smaller teams cannot afford the manufacturing equipment to build some of their parts and peices or in some instances, the whole car. (USF1 is having some of its peices built by others for time constraints and Crawford Composites is making the floor for the Type 1 in its larger Autoclave.)

Trivia: Dallara built the Audi R8 & R10 for the Factory. Audi Designed the cars. Later Audi took over all manufacturing of the R15. Audi owns the designs and the cars,not Dallara.

[strider]

Originally Posted by F.O.F.

Stefan are definitely not on the grid. Not this year anyway.

What if Campos Meta 1 or US F1 don't make it?

[ECW Dan Selby]

Bernie seemed perfectly happy with the concept of having 20 cars.

Then again, he also seemed happy with the concept of medal system, and short cuts.

Selby

[F.O.F.]

Originally Posted by strider

What if Campos Meta 1 or US F1 don't make it?

I don't think it will matter to be honest. I'd be very surprised if the door was re-opened at this stage. But don't get me wrong, I would love to see it happen, any new team is a bonus.

[NaBUru38]

Originally Posted by AJLav

Ferrari recently wanted to let another team run an additional Ferrari Chassis. FOTA or the FIA said no.

More like begged:

New small teams like USF1 should be given the opportunity to use a customer chassis, Ferrari president Luca di Montezemolo said on Thursday.

I agree with Di Montezemolo. When McLaren-Mercedes (not sure which of both) approached Force India, I thought that there could be a chance that all works teams would have a secondary team (Red Bull / Toro Rosso, Honda / Super Aguri), which would use old chassis and engines, and perhaps even take part of a separate teams' championship to keep interest in the backfield. It's bad the F1 didn't head that way.

[Phoenix1]

You have to wonder about the 'technical partnership' Force India have. I am sure they work hard but advanced very quickly when McLaren stepped in.

[nea]

Well, we'll see when the new Force India is launched. I would suspect that it is mainly gearbox/rear suspension that the Technical Partnership will be aiding with, simply because it will be mated to the same Merc engine.