Driver Instruction

[Craig]

Have you ever received instruction from a professional racing driver ? Any stories to tell ? Who instructed you and how were they ? Was anyone real stroppy or did any of them stand out as being really helpful ?

[woodyracing]

Ive had lots of training, in my car and other cars. One of the instructors who has taught me is John Hammersley whos currently 4th in 750mc Hot Hatch. And also Malcolm Barfoot whos currently in BRSCC NW FF1600 championship.

[MaxxUK]

I've recently gotten back into instructing (and competing)after an 8 year layoff. I spoke to a number of my old instructing buddies before getting back involved and they did tell me that the quality has dropped somewhat over the years, despite a more formal qualification process being implemented since my day.

Since then I've done a few few trackdays (to get track experience of tracks I'd not run before) plus done some instructing and I haven't really found that to be the case.

Theres a lot more "experience" day type instructing about these days and perhaps many of todays instructors have not been involved in the more serious driver coaching type of instructing as I and my buddies were (most worked for Jim Russell School) but I've found them all competent and very friendly.

It's a good point you raise as I've also spoken (in forums etc.) to trackday attendees who don't take advantage of the free instruction because they don't think the instructors will be that helpful of friendly, which is a great shame as I feel that is very rarely going to be the case.

Also, you never know who might be instructing you, some of my instructing buddies back in the early 90s were Anthony Reid, Warren Hughes, Thomas Erdos, Kelvin Burt, Dario Franchitti, Patrick Watts etc. etc.

[Mackmot]

I just thought this might be off interest to anyone that wants some instructing from top drivers Kelvin Burt, Ian Flux, Justin Wilson, Andrew Kirkaldy or Darren Manning

www.mackiemotorsport.co.uk/training.html

[jamesb]

I got some instruction from Phil Bennett, the rudest, most abrupt man I have ever been in a car with. He chewed me to pieces.
Before.....best qualfication 11th
After ..... qualified 5th

Thanks Phil, I'll be back for more this year.
Best thing I ever did in motorsport.

[MaxxUK]

James,

LOL, yes, I know Phil can come across that way at times but you do need someone who is not going to pussy-foot around and someone that is going to push you a little. Phil tends to choose the "stick" rather than the "carrot". Possibly the motorsport equivalent of "Pop Idol"'s Simon Cowell.

Most guys are not rude in the least though so please don't let that put you off seeking formal instruction.

Maxx

[jamesb]

I'd reccommend Phil to anyone, unless they are racing against me. Once the lesson was over he was as polite as anyone, just gave me a roasting in the car.

The great thing was, I was in the car re-doing my ARDS.
I was writing an article about getting into racing, so was given an hour tuition first, then the test.

You'd think people would sweet talk journalists on stuff like this. He'd not get the reccommendation from me if he had.
Oh, and the fool in Faking it, couldn't have chosen a better instructor, I thought he was going to cry at one point.

[Pure GT]

There is a school here in Oz called 'The Australian Superbike School' Most of the instructors have some form of racing experience. All instructors at this school are fantastic, approachable and down to earth, despite some of the "dumb" questions they are repeatedly asked. The tuition is top rate also. They tape up the mirrors on all bikes and during each session come along and get you to follow them and then they follow you. After this they direct you into the pits and go thru the session verbally.

[Pure GT]

Forgot to post their website.
www.superbikeschool.com.au

[graham bahr]

the only instruction i've had as a brands when i did my ARDS, some the lines i was showed would of been great on a sprint or on a one lap qualifier, but use them in a race and every man and his dog would be going up the inside of you, and as for the line through clearways i was shown (way out wide) well it just dont work!! not in my car at any rate.

[Ben Culverhouse]

I participate in a lot of track days, mainly with Track action and have to say that I have enjoyed some great instruction.

I only know one full name and that is Graeme whitehead. What a legend! Huge bloke and a huge personality from Oldham (so an effing Northern Monkey!) and the bravest man I know.....

Let me tell you a story; a couple of years ago I attended an MLR track day at Cadwell Park and it was my second ever track day and wanted some instruction and my first comments to Graeme went along the lines of,"Hello Graeme, would you mind sitting with me for a while." "Sure, no problem. Have you had much experience?" "Done a lot on the playstation!!"

Every one of the instructors I have come across on the Track Action days, Mark, Andy, Graeme and Phil (as noted below, Ben meant Pete rather than Phil) have been excellent so if anyone has had issues would recommend their days. They encourage race cars as at least half the field tend to be people testing or armchair racers like me driving around in sh*t boxes (old race cars!)

Regards

Ben

[MaxxUK]

Thought I'd post a few comments as a member of the instructing profession.

Graham : The ARDS test and pre-test instruction is not intended to teach you to be a Racing Driver or to be able to drive that quickly. It is simply an exercise in concentration, consistency and awareness over 2-3 laps of a race circuit to hopefully make you slightly less of a danger to yourself and other competitors plus of course a written test to ensure you have the basic knowledge to compete in your first race safely.

It doesn't really matter if the lines shown to you are the optimum for speed or for general race driving, it only matters that you are able to stick to those lines demonstrated over the test laps.

Instruction beyond that can take various forms and concentrate on various aspects of what is required to be a competent race and in my view you can never have enough of it.

Trackdays are an invaluable source of cheap (i.e. free) instruction and, although I have been an instructor and coach for over 5 years, on the few trackdays I've done I have always taken the opportunity of getting the instructor to drive me round and give me the benefit of his/her knowledge.

Many people (I know coz I've asked) are nervous of taking up the offer of instruction perhaps thinking that the instructor is going to embarras them in some way. Nothing could be further from the truth. Most of us work as instructors because we love the job, it certainly isn't the pay, or for the kicks we get from driving your cars or demonstrating how wonderful we are.

If your a racer or potential racer and want some specific help, we'll give it. Not all of us are "seaoned" veterans but you can guarentee that we have all competed in at least 10 races and be at National A standard license. We are likley to have done many dozens if not 100s of laps of the circuit you are at and we know the best lines for speed, best overtaking spots, places you need to defend etc.

If you just want to be a better road/trackday driver we'll try and help there too or, if you want to know how to get started in motorsport, or where you might be able to get a good deal on a buy-drive - most likely we will know.

Ben - I second your comments. I know the guys you mention well and can vouch that they are top guys, they know their stuff and are extremely helpful as in fact are pretty much all the instructors I know out there.

Maxx

[Ben Culverhouse]

BTW, can't edit my post and for some reason had one of the insructor's names wrong! It isn't Phil it is Pete, typical racing driver's stature and very entertaining to sit next to when driving my car around. He used to drive the Eurocars and it is so invaluable to see a pro drive your car flat out to make you realise where you could carry more speed on the track.

Once you have attained a certain degree of proficiency I believe it is much more beneficial that way than having the constructive assesment of your own driving as there should only be 2 or 3 things that are making you slower and knowing your car can turn in with that much speed gives you the confidence you need. Driving around thinking any minute I'm gonna stuff it does not make for a quick lap!!

Thereafter if you can't do it then Phil Bennet's method may be the best one.

Anyway, what do I know, I just drive for fun

Regards

Ben

[MaxxUK]

Ben,

I thought the Phil you meant might have been Phil Cooper who I believe works mainly at Oulton where Andy (Davies) and Mark (can't recall surname but tall, quite stocky and very close cropped hair) and Graeme also seem to hang out a lot (esp Mark as it's on his doorstep - Senior Instr).

The "Pete" could be Pete Chambers who is the only Pete I know from Eurocar, sadly it didn't last long. Not sure if he works/worked as an instructor but last I heard he was racing Porsches.

Maxx

[Werewolf]

Just had some tuition fom Tim Mullen at Silverstone.Top guy and very helpful.Would recommend it to anyone.Only downside is you realise how good the are compared to you.

[brandsman]

Originally posted by graham bahr
the only instruction i've had as a brands when i did my ARDS, some the lines i was showed would of been great on a sprint or on a one lap qualifier, but use them in a race and every man and his dog would be going up the inside of you, and as for the line through clearways i was shown (way out wide) well it just dont work!! not in my car at any rate.

Graham,
I'm sure you're refering to the "follow the outside edge of the track" line at Druids. I instructed at Brands and I have to agree, I've never seen the point of that myself. But that's the way we tell you to do it, so that's the way you should do it.

As for the line through Clearways, it feels awkward initialy because you feel like you're going in one direction and the track is going in another,BUT, it is absolutely the proper line through that corner. It does work, because it allows you to unwind the steering and by doing so decrease the rolling resistance of the tires, which means higher speeds down the straight. The more steering lock that you have on the more drag you have from the tires scubbing across the asphalt. (And it works in any car )

[gfm]

It's worth reassuring WEREWOLF, that it's natural to feel somewhat stunned by how easy it looks when a professional instructor makes things look so easy.
The deal is not to panic. You cannot sit at a Piano and play Chopin on the first day either.
Making your way quickly and efficiently around the circuit is in fact incredibly simple. A straightforward pattern of driving movements and positioning.
It's all the chaff that needs sorting out and dealing with that confuses the issue, and most of that is in the head.
Once you know what's required, it's then a commitment to practise, mileage - any piano player will tell you that.

[DavidStHubbins]

When I worked at Silverstone I got to be driven around the track with loads of the instructors and loved it everytime.. Andy Priaulx, Rob Barff, Tafty, Chris Ward etc. I will never forget the experience of the late Jamie Hunter taking me round the track in a Cosworth - sideways at about 90-100mph with one arm - talking to me face to face.... He had MEGA car control and as everyone says, makes it look so easy like all of them.

[brandsman]

David,

You mention the "late" Jamie Hunter. Jamie was a friend of mine, but I hadn't heard anything about him passing away. Could you, or anyone else, give me some further information about that. I would really appreciate it.

[DavidStHubbins]

Jamie Hunter passed away 2 years ago sadly.

[batcave]

The best all round track day instruction is at Bedford Autodrome. The team of instructors are world class, Justin Wilson F1, Christian Vann Sportscar, Werner Lupberger Sportscar, Robbie Kerr F3000, Andrew Kirkaldy Ascar to say the least! The track days themselves are also second to none. Talk about flat out! www.palmersport.com/trackdays

[Aussie 05]

Hey Brandsman - his sister Judit is doing a sky dive over Silverstone to comemorate the 2nd anniversary of him passing away - anyone who knew his is welcome to attend.

Nick

[brandsman]

Thanks for the info Aussie. I'd love to be there, but unfortunately I've just suffered the loss of my mother and I'm struggling with that. What is the exact date? Maybe I'll lift a glass in his honor.

[Aussie 05]

I'm sorry - not quite sure - but i'm at Silverstone this week so i'll try and find out for you.

[DavidStHubbins]

Judit is Jamie's wife, not sister.