Is DTM a touring car or silhouette series?

[kmchow]

In the recent issue of Touring Car World 2002. The author mentioned he left out DTM from the annual because he no longer considered the DTM to be a touring car series, but more a silhouette series? In other words, he's basically saying the DTM has become a literal Euro version of the US's Nascar? Marketing success aside, I don't know if members would consider that to be a compliment or an insult? What do you think?

[Carrie]

I wouldn't compare it to Nascar, but when the DTM came to Donington earlier this year, I got the impression of a series which was perhaps closer to Sportscars than it is to what we associate with Touring Cars in the BTCC.

[kmchow]

I've already forgotten the rules for the DTM. I think they are tube frame reinforced but they still use the street car's bodyshell? This is in contrast to Nascar's tube frame and alumninum sheeting for a bodyshell?

[Portello]

The DTM - workteams use their own technics (the costs for a car are about 500.000 Euro). Only V8 engines are allowed and the regulations are restricted.

[Speedworx]

Its a touring car series.

[429CJ]

Apart of that one show car, I can't remember seeing any gullwing-door V8 rwd Astra road cars. Or V8 rwd Audi TT. Only Mercedeses are enough close the real things.

[redshoes]

I wouldn't go as far as calling it 'European NASCAR' but it's definately a silhouette series.

[kmchow]

Actually, didn't Vauxhall contemplate producing a limited number of DTM inspired Astras? They looked pretty sweet last I recall.

[kristof14]

Opel produced something like 30 of the gullwing doored cars all of which went to Opel execs!!! lucky gits!

[racer69]

I'd say it's boarderline between Touring Cars and a Silouette series. There's a bit of Touring Cars in the regulations, but at the same time a fair few that you wouldn't normally find in TC regs.

is an Audi TT really a Touring Car, i don't reckon so

And it is after all the German Touring Car Masters, so you'd hope it was a Touring Car championship.

[redshoes]

What about the French Supertourisme series. That's blatantly for silhouette cars yet retains the TC title.

[racer69]

Your correct, i forgot about that

Unfortunatly it seems many Touring Car Championships seem to be heading towards a silouette type of rules package ,
French Supertourisme, DTM, with the rule changes in V8Supercars next year they are getting towards silouette cars, in a way the BTC Tourers are as well.

If only we could bring back something like Group A, proper Touring Cars with links to the road car.

[Dudley]

I can't remember seeing any gullwing-door V8 rwd Astra road cars.

As mentioned, it exists. The Opel Astra X-Treme.

Gullwing 0 to 60 in 3.5, 437bhp, 187mph

[Mocko]

I agree with redshoes and 429CJ. I can't see that it's a touring car series.

[steve nielsen]

it cetainly is'nt a touring car series, almost none of the original parts are used(if any).

[racerguy]

OK, so the body parts aren't original. But, the cars are meant the resemble salon cars (however distantly) not sports cars, and the races are not endurance ones with driver changes. Proper stock cars run on ovals.

Anyway, the cars are way more impressive than the etcc ones, the races are as good (even without reversing the top six) and the drivers at the front end of the grid are miles better than any other touring car series outside Australia.

[alfasud]

Silhouette, more like Trans Am (2 doors, tube frame, V8's road courses) than Nascar. Do DTM have the original glass windscreen?

My understanding is that the DTM body/chassis don't even have the original wheelbase - at least I'm sure the Audi TT is stretched longer.

Aussie V8 supercars are starting to go the same way but are still closer to Touring Cars to me.

[kmchow]

AFAIK, only the Audi has a significantly longer wheelbase. But honestly, I doubt the DTM are using the original glass windshield. It probably is plexi-glass.

[Mocko]

I don't think any series should use the glass windscreen from the original.

[alfasud]

Originally posted by Mocko
I don't think any series should use the glass windscreen from the original.

I think you will find that in many touring car series they use original glass windscreen. Look up the rules for Super 2000 (on either ETCC of FIA web sites) and you don't see anything about allowing plastic windscreens, and rule is that if it's not specifically allowed (to be replaced/modified), then it's forbidden.

In classes that do allow plastic front or rear screens, you will often see metal reinforcing to prevent the screen bending (or even collapsing) under wind pressure.

The production car uses the strength of the windscreen to help stiffen the car, plus the plastic/glass laminate helps prevent solid objects from travelling through the screen into the passenger compartment. The type of glass is designed not to break into dangerous sharp fragments.