A few more Odd-ones

Dan Rear · 30 Oct 2003, 17:05 (Ref:768280)

For our resident 70s F2/Atlantic fans.

Anyone remember the Scott P1, the Sanas, the Boxers. How many of each built, anyone any stories about each of them. AS I recall the Boxers were very quick, and had some excellent results, with good drivers. The others less so I remember.

Dan

Chris Townsend · 31 Oct 2003, 10:33 (Ref:768979)

Dan

I think there were three Boxers
First car [PR276-001] built F2 Henton, unsed by Rouff in early Indyatlantic races
Second car [PRA76-002]: FAt for Rouff
third car: F2 for 1977

Sanas:
Two or three:
RD9 Graham Eden Racing: FAt. Cyd Williams then Terry Perkins then Nick May
RD10? Don't know if existed
RD11 Works: Terry Perkins Monaco F3, converted to FAt for Withers of Winsford [Cyd Williams]

Chris

Dan Rear · 3 Nov 2003, 17:18 (Ref:771787)

Chris or anyone else. Who designed/built the Sanas? Is the designtaion RD the designers initials? Also, and back to another old issue, I'm sure Andy Barton got one in mid-77, which he later converted to his 'Barton JT3'. I presume this was the Withers car as the other one was, I think, burnt out in Graham Eden's factory fire. Am I right on this ?

Re the Boxers, I agree on the first 2, but had always assumed the 77 F2 car was the same one they'd used in 76, rather than a brand new one. As I recall Max Harvey used this in 79 in hillclimbs, I wonder what happened to the other one (or 2) if 3 were made.

Dan

cirrus · 3 Nov 2003, 21:33 (Ref:772066)

Regarding the Boxers - I heard that Brian Lewis still retains one - Boxer Cars are still extant as far as I know at Fairoaks Airport in Surrey. The last time I saw Brian Lewis was in the Taj Mahal in Addlestone many years ago.

I am pretty sure that there was only one Scott F2 car. Patrick Head designed the car for Richard Scott in about 1973. PH had recently worked for Ron Tauranac, and the car showed many familiar design traits. Shortly afterwards, Patrick Head designed the Starfire and Delta FF2000 cars. Those Deltas were some of the most neatly integrated single seaters of their era. What's he doing now, I wonder?

davemorganfan · 4 Nov 2003, 11:18 (Ref:772549)

Interesting stuff here, filled in a few gaps for me particularly on the Sanas (I thought there was only one!). Now - what about a car called the Swift which appeared in the joke Indylantic thing in 1976? Surely no relation to later cars of the same name. And by the way, does anyone want to talk about Pygmees?

Dan Rear · 4 Nov 2003, 11:51 (Ref:772587)

Aaln/Cirrus, I agree those Deltas were lovely little things. I first remember the F4 IRF4s from about 1975, Fergus Tait, John Brown and others. Very quick too, they used to have great dices with Ian Briggs in a March 733, usually well clear of the rest. F4 at that time was pretty strong, lots of older Chevrons, Brabhams, Marches, and so on, some good 'specials' too, one of which you may know about !

The later FF2000 Deltas were also very good, when that category was strong in the late 70s/early 80s, before the VDs and Reynards took over. I recall Mike White, Richard ?, Crossley, Dave Coyne going well in them.

Re the Swift Atlantic, I think I remember reading on here that it was an updated Lotus 69, John Bicht I think. Not a front runner, but not too bad either as I recall.

Great times, and good to still be discussing them now !!!

Dan

verglas · 4 Nov 2003, 20:09 (Ref:773040)

davemorganfan, would those be the BERT Pygmees driven by, amongst others Patrick Dal Bo and Lian Duarte by any chance? Pretty little cars that IIRC nearly won a heat at Thruxton but ran out of fuel on the last lap?

davemorganfan · 5 Nov 2003, 10:06 (Ref:773599)

Quote:

Originally posted by verglas
davemorganfan, would those be the BERT Pygmees driven by, amongst others Patrick Dal Bo and Lian Duarte by any chance? Pretty little cars that IIRC nearly won a heat at Thruxton but ran out of fuel on the last lap?

Yes, they are the ones, or at least some of the ones. The Banting Earle Racing Team (who didn't like their name being shortened to BERT, although everyone did it) ran the works Pygmees from a British base in 1972. Derek Bell an Carlos Pace were other drivers. Something must have gone wrong (lack of money?) as I think the whole fizzled out later in the season. The "Earle" was of course Mike Earle, of Onyx fame. I always liked the Pygmees as I was so taken with the name of their driver (and son of the constructor) Patrick Dal Bo, which I thought was just wonderful. Motoring News gave the most concise description of a racing car I ever came accross when they described the MDB 16, the 1971 F2 car - "basically, if you chop the top off the monocoque of an MDB 15 you have an MDB16". Couldn't be clearer.

Chris Townsend · 5 Nov 2003, 10:25 (Ref:773623)

John Bicht's Swift was built from the remains of Lotus 69 [71/69.8.FB] after it was pretty comprehensively demolished by Ian Mawby at Snetterton in 1973

Chris

Richard Young · 5 Nov 2003, 22:51 (Ref:774303)

And....What about the Druid - an Andreasson creation I think. Or maybe a Martin or two ?

Bryan Miller · 6 Nov 2003, 08:33 (Ref:774534)

Can't assist with any of the above , but as this appears to be 'THE REST ' thread , Where are the Huron 2.0 litre Sports Racing cars , and for that matter the Huron Atlantic[s] .
Some years ago at least one of the Huron Sports cars was adv. for sale in Motorsport IIRC.

I think 3 x Sports cars were built, how many Atlantics. ???

Bryan.

Dan Rear · 6 Nov 2003, 12:51 (Ref:774772)

Richard

I think the Druid was originally a Royale design, their RP23, designed by Byrne I think, after he did the RP21 FF and RP22 Ff2000. After Bob King left Royale, they abandoned the design,and sold it to Andreason. I got this from memory and the excellent Paul Lawrence Royale book.

Apparently Roger a made a few Druids, I remember one in F Atlantic in Britain in 79-80, which he drove himself, Dave Rackham too, possibly. Not very fast generally, used to play at the back with the Wimhurst, Westwood's March etc.

Dan Rear · 12 Nov 2003, 12:44 (Ref:780959)

Bryan

On the subject of odd Atlantics, was the Peter Williamson Lola/Toleman an ex-F2 car, or an Atlantic 'proper'. I thought the latter, but am very willing to be corrected. How did it go against the Ralts, as to all intents and purposes I believe it was the same car ?

Junior Senior · 12 Nov 2003, 17:15 (Ref:781205)

Dan, would your "Richard ?" in FF2000 be Richard Wills??

Dan Rear · 13 Nov 2003, 13:01 (Ref:782007)

Junior Senior

Yes he's the chap I had in mind, pretty good as I recall. I think he had a Delta in 77, alongside Nick Crossley who owned the Company I believe. At FF 2000 level though, its was Mike White the next year who really put them on the map. Do you know what happened to Wills ?

Dan

cirrus · 13 Nov 2003, 15:14 (Ref:782122)

Quote:

Aaln/Cirrus, I agree those Deltas were lovely little things. I first remember the F4 IRF4s from about 1975, Fergus Tait, John Brown and others. Very quick too, they used to have great dices with Ian Briggs in a March 733, usually well clear of the rest. F4 at that time was pretty strong, lots of older Chevrons, Brabhams, Marches, and so on, some good 'specials' too, one of which you may know about !

Sorry, I've only just picked up this thread again. Ian Briggs used to drive a purpose-built Delta with an Imp engine, and was indeed the class of the field. Brian Turner was "best of the rest" with his self-built BTC with a 1300 engine, and that certain other special with an MAE was third in '79, making three different engine types in the top three championship positions.

The late John Brown used to run an IRF4, and after a Sports 2000 escapade, returned to F4 with a March 733. Iain Rowley, another F4 hotshoe now supplies spares for Deltas from his company Delta Motor Sport.

Sigh.... Happy Days!

Dan Rear · 13 Nov 2003, 16:18 (Ref:782171)

Alan,

Agreed, F4 was brilliant in the late 70s early 80s, most of the FF2000 Deltas seemed to migrate there over time ! I have a Silverstone prog in front of me (early 83) that shows a F4 entry with Ralt/Deltas/Chevron/Marches/Lola/Reynard/Royale/CTG/Brabham/Hawke etc etc entered. Even a C----s too, Iain Rowley if you know him. He finished 3rd behind Meyrick's Delta, and Whatley's March. Great variety of cars, derived from F3,FF2000 and 1600, plus 'specials'.

Junior Senior · 13 Nov 2003, 17:11 (Ref:782217)

Dan, sorry i don't know what happened to Richard Wills.
Was it Rushbrook Racing that ran Dave Coyne in the Delta? That's the car that was sponsored by Denny Laine and Wings, IIRC...........

Dan Rear · 13 Nov 2003, 17:21 (Ref:782223)

Junior Senior, thats the one, I think Coyne won the first race in 81, when FF2000 was very strong and varied. But Tommy Byrne came on really strong later, and dominated. Coyne always flattered to deceive I thought, he was hyped at the time as the 'next big thing' never really did it though did he? Certainly MAWP in Autosport rated him, and used to tell us often about Coyne !

Junior Senior · 13 Nov 2003, 18:59 (Ref:782325)

Dave Coyne was a superb driver, tough as old boots!
He drove probably the best defensive drive i have seen to win the 1990 Festival, in a car that should never have been so far up the grid,the Swift FB90.
What a hound that was!! The way he defended his position made me think he was using rear view mirrors from a 52 seater coach.............

cirrus · 13 Nov 2003, 19:46 (Ref:782365)

Isn't Richard Wills the father of FF1600 racer Gavin Wills?

diz · 13 Nov 2003, 20:25 (Ref:782388)

Quote:

Originally posted by Junior Senior
Dan, would your "Richard ?" in FF2000 be Richard Wills??

JS + DR It may well have been Wills, but I recall a Delta FF2000 being run for a few races by Richard PEACOCK at this time. He ran quicker early season than Mike White in the works car - with the same engine builder. Richard's engine went back for a rebuild and he was never as quick again. Strangely, White found a lot of pace thereafter!!!! Nothing changes in the FF world.

Peacock went on to found Aintree Racing Drivers' School and Race School Ireland [both now sold to new operators]. Next, he did some Thundersports, then became a very successful Historic F1 driver in Tyrell 010, then in some of Don Wood's Source fleet of F1s'. He was instrumental in getting Anglesey Circuit up and running and is still in day to day control of the venue, where he still opearates a race school facility.

cirrus
I don't think the Wills mentioned is Gavin's dad. I seem to recall his name was Dave. He worked for a major cake company and brought "samples" to the Formula E races, where Gavin cut his teeth. So any NW FF1600 people reading this will now know that the "cake thing" is not new.

Junior Senior · 13 Nov 2003, 21:11 (Ref:782437)

I've found a programme out with Richard Wills in a Delta, also Tim Wallwork, Simon Kirkby, Roy Goff, Julian Morley, Ray Edge, David Leslie, Rob Cooper etc etc......... ahh, the good old days.......................

Dan Rear · 17 Nov 2003, 16:34 (Ref:786158)

Back to the Sanas. Anyone know who made them, was it our friend Graham Eden, was he capable of that, or anything...After one became the Barton JTB3, where did it go, anyone know. Don't think Andy made it into a GT car, perhaps he sold it abroad, as I don't remember seeing it after about 1980, when Muter got Andy's older March. Just seen a nice pic I took of the Atlantic Druid in 1982, very nice looking little thing.