GTE Speculation

[busdegnao]

only the 2012 458 has a big fuel economy advantage, the 2011 model used in gt-am has average consumes.

[MitchZ06]

I never said discourage it but why focus on it in GTE to the detriment of the racing?

[Mt. Lynx]

Originally Posted by arakis

hope so

Then they really need to rethink the enginerules.

[arakis]

Originally Posted by MitchZ06

I never said discourage it but why focus on it in GTE to the detriment of the racing?

in what way would it lessen the racing?

[MitchZ06]

It's what P1 is doing, pushing the fuel efficiency to the absolute limit, leave it for them.

How would it lessen the racing? Corvettes and Vipers big engines would (and do) use more fuel than the smaller displacement Ferrari and Porsche engines, that's not something I want to see change. In an effort to push fuel economy drivers wouldn't be able to push so hard, how many races have we seen where drivers battling hard have made the racing awesome? HEAPS! Economy drives in GTE would dull the racing completely...like I said, P1 is for the advancement of technology and there's no reason for GTE to look into it but it shouldn't be written into the rules.

[arakis]

Originally Posted by MitchZ06

It's what P1 is doing, pushing the fuel efficiency to the absolute limit, leave it for them.

How would it lessen the racing? Corvettes and Vipers big engines would (and do) use more fuel than the smaller displacement Ferrari and Porsche engines, that's not something I want to see change. In an effort to push fuel economy drivers wouldn't be able to push so hard, how many races have we seen where drivers battling hard have made the racing awesome? HEAPS! Economy drives in GTE would dull the racing completely...like I said, P1 is for the advancement of technology and there's no reason for GTE to look into it but it shouldn't be written into the rules.

I disagree, with proper engine mods / maps the drivers could push as they like..

How would you suggest Engines to be balanced without leaving the huge torque advantage of High volume engines... As the current system is clearly broken....The apparent closeness of racing is only virtualy upheld by ALMS artificialy created last lap fights trough safty cars... This becomes apperant on ELMS, and WEC (non ALMS) races....

constant readjustment of BoP is idiotic, and 99% of the racing performance is sandbagged...

maybe the best way would be to run the engines unrestricted with 80l fuel tanks..sure the 7-8l would be faster, but would go to pits every other lap

[Mt. Lynx]

Originally Posted by MitchZ06

It's what P1 is doing, pushing the fuel efficiency to the absolute limit, leave it for them.

How would it lessen the racing? Corvettes and Vipers big engines would (and do) use more fuel than the smaller displacement Ferrari and Porsche engines, that's not something I want to see change. In an effort to push fuel economy drivers wouldn't be able to push so hard, how many races have we seen where drivers battling hard have made the racing awesome? HEAPS! Economy drives in GTE would dull the racing completely...like I said, P1 is for the advancement of technology and there's no reason for GTE to look into it but it shouldn't be written into the rules.

I agree to this.
If they are to use that formula for the GT class, maybe they have to allow for pure racing engines. The current crop of cars eligiable for GTE don't cut it.

[The Badger]

Originally Posted by MitchZ06

GTE has never been about fuel economy...

Endurance racing is always about fuel economy ..... affects the number and length of pit stops .

[arakis]

The system as it is now, and as you propose rewords inefficiency, and plain old aincent technology of te high volume gas guslers...
that is just not right, GT racing should reflect roads cars even closer then LMP1 do...and low efficient engines should be penalised or at least their addvantige removed...

The viper is total ALMS BS, and I hope ACO trows it out on it's ass..(but that aint gonna happen)...

the 4-5.5l engines we have now are just at the limit where it is possible to balance them out...with posible 25kg per 500cc of volume increse..to take out the torque addvantige, and add a sence of realism, as larger engines are heavier...

[MitchZ06]

Push as they like, i.e "don't push, we'll run out of fuel before the end of the race"

Lol! on the second point. As it stands the current balancing between the cars is as close as it has ever been bar Porsche being a bit slower on the straights. How many last lap battles because of safety cars has there been in the ALMS this year alone? Yes, I thought so....

Broken record, Arakis and BoP, these go hand in hand very very well.

Like the RLM crew say, what needs to change with GTE? NOTHING!
Whilst I would like to see Corvette get to use the LS7 and race a GTE Z06 (I'm a Z06 man, I am warming to the ZR1 however) and Aston race with a V12 I'm not going to sit in the corner and cry if it never happens.

Originally Posted by arakis

I disagree, with proper engine mods / maps the drivers could push as they like..

How would you suggest Engines to be balanced without leaving the huge torque advantage of High volume engines... As the current system is clearly broken....The apparent closeness of racing is only virtualy upheld by ALMS artificialy created last lap fights trough safty cars... This becomes apperant on ELMS, and WEC (non ALMS) races....

constant readjustment of BoP is idiotic, and 99% of the racing performance is sandbagged...

maybe the best way would be to run the engines unrestricted with 80l fuel tanks..sure the 7-8l would be faster, but would go to pits every other lap

[Deleted]

Originally Posted by MitchZ06

Like the RLM crew say, what needs to change with GTE? NOTHING!

There's a lot that needs to be changed... EVEN mr Hindhaugh has changed his opinion on this and has said that the phrase you just said no longer really works, take a listen to the Midweek Motorsport episode 26 and you can hear John's dislike towards the growing use of waivers and balance of performance in the category

[arakis]

Originally Posted by Chiana

There's a lot that needs to be changed... EVEN mr Hindhaugh has changed his opinion on this and has said that the phrase you just said no longer really works, take a listen to the Midweek Motorsport episode 26 and you can hear John's dislike towards the growing use of waivers and balance of performance in the category

mah leave him alone, he'd just like to see GTE turened into Nascar's cheap thrills

[MitchZ06]

NASCRAP isn't even cheap thrills!

Yeah the BoP and waivers do get excessive at times and there should be a BoP freeze after May-ish but I doubt we'll see anything like it with the current muppets in charge...

[Deleted]

What do you mean, I for once would love to see Aaron's Lucky Dog, green white checkers, competition cautions and tube frames introduced

Not but seriously, I generally do tend to agree with most (well, some) of arakis's points, however the US style of throwing safety cars in every time someone spins in is not any less artificial than the 3x SC rule in Europe which always puts someone 1 lap down, whether they deserved it or not - and everyone is screwed on restarts. Also the insurance etc is different on the other side of the pond

[arakis]

Originally Posted by Chiana

What do you mean, I for once would love to see Aaron's Lucky Dog, green white checkers, competition cautions and tube frames introduced

Not but seriously, I generally do tend to agree with most (well, some) of arakis's points, however the US style of throwing safety cars in every time someone spins in is not any less artificial than the 3x SC rule in Europe which always puts someone 1 lap down, whether they deserved it or not - and everyone is screwed on restarts. Also the insurance etc is different on the other side of the pond

agree on that as well..IMO SC should be outlawed and stewart controlled pit limiter button should be installed...

[kyoung]

Originally Posted by FstrthnU

*cough* I think you mean maximum displacement

No I meant minimum, just left out the sarcasm tags.

[kyoung]

Originally Posted by joeb

Because they want to run the engines that are in the cars they sell. Makes sense to me - allow production engines in the production class.

BINGO!, give this man a cigar.

[kyoung]

Originally Posted by arakis

The system as it is now, and as you propose rewords inefficiency, and plain old aincent technology of te high volume gas guslers...
that is just not right, GT racing should reflect roads cars even closer then LMP1 do...and low efficient engines should be penalised or at least their addvantige removed...

The viper is total ALMS BS, and I hope ACO trows it out on it's ass..(but that aint gonna happen)...

the 4-5.5l engines we have now are just at the limit where it is possible to balance them out...with posible 25kg per 500cc of volume increse..to take out the torque addvantige, and add a sence of realism, as larger engines are heavier...

You don’t know what you are talking about; check the engine spec to the right on these pages...

http://www.aquilaracingcars.com/prod...t/cr1-ls7.aspx

http://www.aquilaracingcars.com/prod...r1-bmw-m3.aspx

http://www.aquilaracingcars.com/prod...1-bmw-m60.aspx

More power, more torque from an engine package of about the same size. Of course you want to kill displacement size; it’s the only chance your weenie pony has. I think they should open the rules more for displacement on demand as long as the road car has it. Current rule package kills any real innovation.

[arakis]

Originally Posted by kyoung

Of course you want to kill displacement size; it’s the only chance your weenie pony has. I think they should open the rules more for displacement on demand as long as the road car has it. Current rule package kills any real innovation.

Actually even with the torque advantage, the corvette is no match for the 458 (if the corvette wasn't BoP-ed)

Personally I couldn't care less, as under the current rules it's clear that the 458 is the best race car out there... which is enough of a satisfaction for me. I only wish Ferrari and Michelotto's efforts get reworded with victories instead of being punished because the others just can't develop fast enough to follow them.

Personally I'm satisfied with just the Le Mans victory, and the overall acknowledgment that 458 is the superior race cars..I wan't the wins for Ferrari and Michelotto so they continue to develop, and not get fed up with FIA/ACO and show them the finger and leave

On another note, I advocate that the GTE class be for sports cars. and I fint the corvette zr1 an excelent sports car, as well as the Viper, and the mcLaren, I don't want them to go, I don't however wanna see Sedans, and hairstylists cars included (M3s, and Z4s), let them enjoy GT3/4, GTE should be for the big boys, with cars that actually come close to each other on the road as well as the race track.

[MitchZ06]

Corvette other than fuel consumption seemed to have the Ferrari beaten at all races they've competed against each other in the past 2 years nearly. Luckily luck wasn't on Corvette's side this year at Le Mans so the silly pony got a victory. But hey, milk it for all it's worth Arakis because it won't be another Ferrari win next year

[arakis]

Originally Posted by MitchZ06

Corvette other than fuel consumption seemed to have the Ferrari beaten at all races they've competed against each other in the past 2 years nearly. Luckily luck wasn't on Corvette's side this year at Le Mans so the silly pony got a victory. But hey, milk it for all it's worth Arakis because it won't be another Ferrari win next year

you trow away the restrictor handout the corvette has, and all the other BoP bull-crap it received, and your left with a pretty crappy race car compared to Ferrari... IOW standing side by side without any BoP Ferrari would win every race hands down, against any GTE car. meaning Ferrari built the best race car, in any and every way a race car can be measured, the rest is FIA/ACO BS.....


disputing that is childish, as pretty much every team is saying that, along with how poor the BoP has treated them

[Speed-King]

Originally Posted by arakis

you trow away the restrictor handout the corvette has, and all the other BoP bull-crap it received, and your left with a pretty crappy race car compared to Ferrari... IOW standing side by side without any BoP Ferrari would win every race hands down, against any GTE car. meaning Ferrari built the best race car, the rest is FIA/ACO BS.....

Well, give the Corvette the 7l engine back and it might look different.

[arakis]

Originally Posted by Speed-King

Well, give the Corvette the 7l engine back and it might look different.

doupt it, as they were slowpokes when they started with it

[MitchZ06]

LOL! Arakis you're not a Ferrari employee are you? because that's A grade Ferrari arrogance right there!

They never raced the 7.0L in GT2, only the 6.0L (which had DI that Ferrari *****ed about and so they were forced to remove) then the 5.5L.

[Speed-King]

Originally Posted by arakis

doupt it, as they were slowpokes when they started with it

Back then they were new to the category and restricted to hell and back. I thought we were talking about a straight up fight without any restrictors.